2004 was the year of The Great Cabaceo Debate but what really helped Wellington tango move forward was less talk and more dancing. The discussions are best left to the Forum in future.
Subject: Another BA story
Created on 21 Apr 2004 18:16:55
Message #2080 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Hi there,
The shopping here is incredible, Christian Dior and Yves St laurent suits for $NZ350, cashmere/merino jerseys for $NZ20 and scarves for $NZ12. I´ll do all my clothes shopping here in future!
My new dance shoes seem to be better as street dancing shoes, but I expected that. My ballroom shoes are far better for me for tango, giving much more feel for the floor and allow my foot to balance me better. The tango shoes are so structured and the sole is so inflexible that your foot is just wedged in there and is basically passive, so your body placement over the foot has to be much better. I´ll give it a punt for a bit longer but they´re so cheap here that I really can´t complain.
Our first lesson was basically a disaster, but I learned a few good exercises. The lesson wasn´t ultimately difficult, it was just the way it was taught and Beth and I were basically on our own trying to figure it out. Thank God she´s here!
The next day we went to a lesson with Diego Alvaro, a friend of Maida Zanaboni who she brought out to Auckland last year. That was more like a guided practica and was much better and I now know how to do a milonguero giro, which we had been trying to figure out.
Last night I met a milonguero who wants to teach me estilo milonguero from Thursday. He thinks I dance ´Muy bien´ but I wasn´t dancing well at the time and I think that he says that to anyone that he wants to teach (which is probably anyone better than a beginner), but he´s an amazing dancer! He has no English so it may be a challenge for my miniscule Español.
I was at El Beso when I met him and found it a little disturbing in that it there wasn´t a woman over 40 in the place and most were 20-30, very beautiful, dressed to kill and utterly focussed on dancing with men between 60-80 years old. These old guys were revelling in their desirability but I had to wonder where their wives were. I was the worst dancer in the place but El Beso on Tuesday night is apparently the best place in town, so I wasn´t too worried. I actually danced a couple of times but only because Jorge the Milonguero offered me a woman (and that´s how it felt, it wasn´t nice but she wasn´t going to object in case he didn´t dance with her again). The interesting thing was that at El Beso, I was the bump-er whereas at Canning and Ideal I am usually the bumpee ie my level of control and crowd management was FAR lower than those around me, so I tried to be smooth and predictable and away from other people, but it definitely gets in the way of enjoying the dance.
I met Alicia from New York who was in Wellington early last year. She brings tango tours here a couple of times a year, she was VERY pleased to see someone from Wellington and really enjoyed her trip last year.
The big thing that I notice here is the number of young people dancing. At some places it seems like half the floor is filled with 20-30s whereas in Wellington and Auckland it´s ´somewhat older´.
Milonguero style is seen as a fashion here by our hostess, who is also a tango teacher and started 15 years ago when tango was TINY and it was very difficult to even find a tango club, let alone a teacher! Amazing, eh? She says that there is a fashion for milonguero now, but the young people are learning VERY flashy dancing and some very good dancers are now moving back to figures again. She sees it as very cyclic, but she stresses that if you go to a teacher and he tells you that this is the true tango then you should smile sweetly but not believe him.
Geoff
021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
Subject: Quickie letter from BA
Created on 19 Apr 2004 14:50:08
Message #2074 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
I don´t have much to add to Liz´ letter, but here are some quickie notes:
If I could find work I´d move here tomorrow! The people are sooooooooo warm and friendly, and soooo helpful.
The taxi drivers are great! But scary!
It feels so much safer than London. The bad areas look bad but so long as you keep your bad-news radar on it´s been very safe so far for Beth and me,and also for Bob and Liz, who have been here a month, now.
Taxis are so common and so cheap ($NZ5 takes you a long long way) that it´s very easy to get around and the subway is almost as clean as Hamburg. The London tube is a toilet by comparison.
You can use your visa card to pull money from the ATMs, 24 hours, no worries. Travellers cheques are a pain.
Tango police? What tango police? I´ve been dancing at Gricel, Canning and Ideal and have seen so many experienced good, local dancers stepping back into the line of dance on the first step (sometimes taking TWO steps back) that I´ve been amazed. Dance floor discipline in Wellington seems quite advanced by comparison. Cutting across the line of dance on a diagonal is also common in the search for more space.
There are many good dancers here but there are many dancers who are more social dancers ie they don´t work particularly hard at it, but just do it for fun and in that way the standard is not dissimilar to Wellington, Christchurch and Auckland. So, in case you were wondering, don´t compare yourself to a non-existant model of ´how they do it in BA´, because they do it in a wide variety of ways in BA and many people here remind me of social dancers at home.
There´s a lot of close-hold dancing here but it´s as much because of the space restriction as anything else. Many people play with more flashy dancing as soon as the space opens up and there are lots of smiles on the dance floor whether it´s full or almost empty. As Liz says, if you want relaxed dancing then you either go early (10pm-12) or late(3am-4am). If you go between those times at places like Canning then you had better have your raspie repertoire handy (short little steps and checks, on the half-beat).
You really are shoulder to shoulder with other people but it allows a lot of things that the more open spaces do not, because the empty floors tempt you to stretch out your steps and fill the music with movement. The tight floors give rise to flirty little things like playing with each other´s feet, and giving long, lingering pauses to the woman for her to adorno adorno adorno!
Manners are soooooooooooooo important for tourists! For instance, I always offer my arm to ladies after I´ve caught their eye for a dance and been accepted, but then I do that at home as well. Here, it´s a revelation! The local ladies nearly squeal with delight (a Norwegian lady actually did!).I walk them onto the floor and then back to their seat, either holding their hand or offering them my arm, and then thank them after they sit. The nicest compliment that I´ve had in English is Ýou dance like a porteño but you have much nicer manners´. (Sorry, I just had to put that in!)
Whoops! This is longer than I intended! Sorry!
Wish you were here!!
Geoff
021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
Subject: Letter from Liz
Created on 19 Apr 2004 14:09:52
Message #2073 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Here´s a GREAT e-mail from Liz, who has fallen in with a bad crowd ie El Pulpo´s circle of friends and dancers. She was even blessed with a Muy Bien (Very good!) from a major milonguero last week! Óh dear, where will it all end?!!
Geoff
Hi, It's Liz here, from Tauranga.... I too am enjoying the pleasures of BA. I haven't bumped into Bob yet but I did see Phil and Michael from Christchurch. It is amazing to go to a Milonga or a shop and bump into an old tango friend from NZ. Michael and Bob have written of their exploits and perceptions of this wondrous place and it was pointed out to me that the Tango communities of NZ might like to get a female perspective.
Plenty has been said about the great tango which can be found here so I'd like to talk about a few other things about BA like shopping, getting chatted up, the way to get more dances if you are a girl (and I'm not talking about tight dresses although that does help), the food and various other things.
Shopping
The New Zealand dollar stretches a long way here and the clothes etc are very cheap as long as you are not in the tourist zone. The quality is great and shop assistants are very helpful, many even speak enough English to help the process along. There is a great variety of tango shoe shops and pricing. The most comfortable shoes I found were in a small dance boutique which I stumbled upon accidentally. I discovered that this was the store the show tango dancers bought their practice shoes - so they had to be comfortable.
I found an antique Tango dress store and bought an amazing coat, the fashion shops are lots of fun and very cheap.
Today I decided to buy jeans so I went to a jeans boutique. There were too many styles to choose from but I did my best to select a few pairs to try on. The assistant I had was a very suave handsome man (I bet he gets the girls to buy more than they need). He was very attentive bringing me jeans and tops and telling me how wonderful I looked. At one point he became quite elated and said "that looks perfecto, I love you".... well you'll be pleased to know that it didn't go to my head and I managed to leave having bought only one pair of jeans and 3 tops (which I probably didn't need). He even gave me instructions on the correct way to wear my underwear with each pair of jeans....I didn't realise that it was so important how your g-string sits but hey we live and learn.
Safety
It feels like a safe place until you accidentally venture into one of those rough areas and you realise that no taxis pass through here so your feet have to get you out of there as quickly as possible. A friend of mine accidentally found himself somewhere he shouldn't be and thought he was about to be accosted. He announced he was from Australia and asked where was a good place for a beer and suddenly he had new friends instead. They went for a drink and he was invited to join them the following evening, he agreed and left on very friendly terms. I meet up with him about an hour later and he was still a little shaken by the experience. He was not tempted to join his new friends the following night. It wasn't worth the risk of meeting someone who might not like Australians.
Americanos
The Argentine people do not seem to like the Americans very much although they enjoy getting access to their money. They seem much happier to hear that we are Australian or New Zealanders. They even know where NZ is - some have mentioned the All Blacks. These people are better educated than the Americans on world geography, world history, world politics and especially world sports.
Getting dances in BA
It is hard to adjust to how packed the dance floors are here so I prefer to go early to get more dance floor space before the masses arrive. I have found that it pays to go on your own to milongas, that way you get lots more dances and people talk to you more. Even when I go with a friend we have learnt to enter separately and sit alone.
One night I went on my own to La Catedral for the El Pulpo class followed by a milonga. I danced all night with an young Argentinian called Alejandro. It was great, the class was easy and heaps of fun. The floor was awful, all pitted and rough. El Pulpo started by dancing tango to Eminem rap music. It was great. The rest of the evening was very alternative but awesome. My friend was very sad when I left (on my own). I'm not sure it was because he was enjoying the dancing with me or because he was hopeful.
Getting unwanted dances
Not all my stories have such a happy ending though. One night at Club Gricel I was asked to dance by a very old Milonguero although he was a good dancer he tried to rub himself against me (if you know what I mean). I was polite and completed the dance. After a couple of tandas he returned and asked for another dance, I reluctantly agreed but made sure I used open hold this time. He tried to get to close hold throughout the dance but I was able to keep it safe. The dance ended and I thought he would leave me alone but he returned several tandas later and so I said no. He then proceeded to follow me around the room and hover near by staring at me sadly.
It was almost a week before I ventured back to Club Gricel and there he was waiting for me. I won't be going back there and it is a pity because it is a great place with lovely dancers.
The food
I thought being a vegetarian in an extreme meat eating country would be difficult but it was not. They are so helpful in the cafes and restaurants here and will prepare pretty much anything you desire. I've had some fabulous meals while my friends enjoy their enormous steaks. The portions are all over sized, great quality and cheap. That is, until you venture into the tourist areas. By the way, the gelato is off the planet good!
Argentine Women
The Argentine men are easy to work out. They are friendly and like to chat up girls, the Argentine women are a little harder to understand. I have been studying their attitude and mannerisms - especially the young women. It is a fascinating, sort of confident, aloof, sexuality. I guess I'll have to work on it if I want to achieve a true tango attitude.
The best class was really a practica.
I have only been to recommended classes so I guess I am luckier than Bob as I haven't been to any bad classes. They have all been great but I have learnt too much to fit in my head at once. I went to a 3 hr guided practica with a friend who lives in BA. It was a small unadvertised class. I was the only foreigner. It was effectively the best class I have been to because the teachers just went around each couple giving them new steps to work on and then moved onto the next couple. They would return to help with problems and leave you to practice while they assisted someone else. It was like each couple had a series of little private classes with practice time in between for each thing learned. It was better than usual classes because usually the teacher has very little time to pay much attention to specific students.
Tango TV
Tango TV is an experience. It is a cable TV channel which has tango classes, show tango, tango singers, interviews with tango celebrities and of course lots of advertisements for tango activities, shoes and other essentials. I have taped 8 videos full of Tango tv and will be happy to put on video evenings when I next visit Wn, Ch or Ak if anyone wants.
Toilets
In some milongas there are toilet attendants who sell a variety of items from dance dresses to breath mints. I'm not sure what else they do but they expect a gratuity. At one place they had even removed the toilet paper from the stall, instead they waited for you to ask for it and a small piece was provided....for a few coins that is. One of the guys was very impressed with the mens toilet at Salon Canning because it had a TV in it and there were some soccer fans in there enjoying a match. I guess there are days when it is hard to choose between tango and football.
Other stuff
I have been to 2 shows, one was a tango musical which I enjoyed but I recognised that the show tango did have a strong ballet side to it. It was an all dancing ,all singing tragedy...boy meets girl they fall in love, girl gets forced into a life of prostitution, boy fights to free her and when eventually you think they will get away and live happily ever after, the boy gets killed by the bad guys. As if the Argentineans don't have enough to be sad about. The brothel scenes were very colourful but one of the guys complained it was false advertising because all the posters had a beautiful naked tango dancer on them and in the show the girls did have a little bit of clothing left.
I also went to a tango dinner show which was very much real tango (show tango though). I had had a class with one of the dancers earlier that day so it was great to see her in action. I even recognised one of the other dancers from the video "Perfumes de Tango". It is amazing how many faces you see here from the videos.
I love it here, even the smoking isn't so bad because of the air-conditioning and high ceilings. It is very cheap to live here, I am seriously considering coming here to live for 3 to 6 months. But first I need to earn some more money and learn to speak Spanish better.
So that's it from me. I have one week left here and I'm off to make the most of it.
Besos a todo
Liz.
Subject: Bob''s letter from Buenos Aires
Created on 14 Apr 2004 19:51:59
Message #2060 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
A bit of a marginal call whether to send this one out, although he does mention BA a couple of times...and it's rather charming...
Geoff 021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:51:12 +1200
When I was a very small child, yea, yea, I know, more than just a couple ofweeks ago--When I was a small boy, pre school, I lived a lot of the time with my GrandParents. My Mothers parents. I spent a great deal of time with my Grand Father Charles Malcolm Ramsey MacArthur, Pipe Major Gordon Highlanders. To those that dont know, the Gordon Highlanders are a Scottish Army regiment, and a Pipe Major is the leader of the Pipe Band. Its hard to believe nowadays, but Grandad joined as a Drummer Boy at the age of 12!!! Anyway, my Grandmother would oftern tell grandad to take that wee bairn (small child) for walk around the Park lake. They lived only a few metres from the Park. Grandad and I would set off for the Park, only to take a shortcut across the corner of the Park down Rookery Lane to a small Pub at the end. Kids were not allowed in palaces like that so we sat at a small table in the rear garden and followed and went through a well practised routine. (This is all a long way from Buenos Aires, but hang in there, we will make the connection).
The Landlord would come out to take the order, which was always the same, but Grandad would accept no interuptions or suggestions, while the Landlord hopped from foot to foot, waiting for the order, Grandad, would tell him Dinna Fret yaself Mon ( don't worry man) He would then after his time of consideration order two wee dramms o single malt (2 shots of unblended whiskey) and a small bottle of Lemonade for the young Laddie (me). We would sit quietly untill the order was delivered. Grandad would pass the bottle of Lemonade and glass to me, unopened, while he burried his nose in his glass, slowly swirling the liquid around to pickup the character of the malt. He would conclude his testing always with, Aye, Aye, its just fine, and the Landlord was excused to carry on his work. Allways, the same routine, never varied. He would then check on my lack of progress oppening the bottle.
He would reach out his huge hand for the bottle, take it very casually, holding it in one hand, leaving about 30 or 40 mm of bottle top clear and with his thumb only, flick the top off as it had been sitting just on top. The top would spin in an arc in the air, comming down onto the table top. Always. As he performed this trick, ( I'm sure he had practised this on a few thousand bottles) he would never take his eyes off me, while I sat in wonder and admiration, he loved it. He would give me his Grandad smile, and add You just have to know you can do it. He would then pass the bottle back to me. This was a much practised ceremony, I would pour the Lemonade into the glass, check that the way was clear, and give Grandad a very slight nod. He would reach across, take my glass and add, just a wee tot of his whiskey to my Lemonade. Wherupon he would always say:- that'l take away the nasty taste of the Lemonade away, and cure what ails ya. (and cure your sicknesses).
We are getting there! At Auckland Airport I had bought a decent bottle of Whiskey for use in BsAs, and untill yesterday it had remained unopend. In the fridge where I live I also had a large unopened bottle of Lemonade,) slow down your getting a head of me) So last night I threw out all conventional medicines and took Grandads advice. Also to add to the occaision, I had on my Laptop the national song of Scotland. O Flower of Scotland. So on the balcony facing onto Bulnes last night I stood glass raised to Grandad, with the massed Pipes and Drums of The Black Watch, I sang to Buenos Aires (very loud) O Flower O Scotland, when will we see, Your like again? That fought and died for, your wee bit hill and glen (small piece of hilland valley That stood against him, proud Edwards army (English) And sent him homeward, to think again.
Do I feel any better for this form of alternative medicine? You had better believe it!!
Thanks Grandad Robert, (much better thanks).
Subject: FW: [tangoauckland] On the Street Where I Live
Created on 03 Apr 2004 05:31:21
Message #2045 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
An amusing little story from Bob Ramsey Turner in BA. We'll be joining himat the same address shortly...
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Subject: [tangoauckland] On the Street Where I Live
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:45:13 +1200
Today I went for a 3 hour walk along one of the main drags here in BsAs, Avenida Corrientes. One way, and 6 lanes wide. It runs through the heart of the city down to the huge Obilisco down on Avenida Nueve De Julio (9th ofJuly). The Argentine Independance day. But more about Corrientes a little later in this story. Today I was going to tell you about the first real Tango Orchestra I saw and listened to last night, but that also will have to wait or I'll be here allnight. On my return from my walk I called in a local Carniceria (Butcher), by the way all the butchers here devote about 10% of their space to meat and the balance to fruit and Veg. I was buying stuff for my lunch it being about 1pm. They were closing up for the Siesta, to about 2-30.
I went to my home at the Junction of Humuhuaka y Bulnes, made an omlete for lunch, then joined the rest of the area in Siesta. I woke about 2 hours later, and started to laugh at the phenomena that wa soccuring down the block at the junction with Buknes y Corrientes. At this junction there is a significant dip in the road. All passing vehicles with any speed, which would be 100%, get a free suspension check. Fully extending the shock absorbers and springs, then fully compressing themon the other side of the dip. It got a little more interesting when a truck did the same thing with any sort of load that wasn't securely tied down, there were lots of those. As the truck passed over the dip, the load suddenly found it was without support and started to decend in search of the the truck tray, only to findit comming back up to the load quickly as it came up the other side of the dip.
Well you may well think not such a big thing, and you would be right, however--Today someone had parked a car by the same intersection with a sensitive alarm system. The shock wave vibrations from the truck load finding thetruck again, set off the car alarm system every time a truck with a loose load went by. Again you may well think not such a big thing, and you would be right, however--The Wow Wow Wow HeHaw HeHaw of the alarm started one of the local dogs off baying in sympathy, as the wolves for thousands of years have bayed at the moon. Again you may well think-- but wait-- if one dog starts this baying any dog around will join in, and did they ever. There are thousands of dogs here, I thought the Poms and Kiwis were mad about their dogs but the Argentines leave them for dead.
So about every 2 or 3 minutes a truck would set off the alarm which wouldset off dog #1 who would set off 20 or 30 more. By the time I had been for a shower and went out on my verandah on Bulnes the alarm had about flattened the battery of the car, it was down to a very minor toot, toot, the dogs had given up on it and they too finally joined the Siester. And it was time for my one hours Tango walk and turning practice before Icame to tell you about Bs As. Not alot of Tango in this little cameo of BsAs, but this place isn't just about tango.
Foot note:
If you've got down to here without deleting it you have done well. I would like a little help from someone on this Auckland tango List, to tell me which stories have got through via the List. I have had some of them bounce back.
Kind RegardsRobert Ramsey-Turner
Subject: FW: [tango_christchurch] Letter from Buenos Aires
Created on 03 Apr 2004 05:23:39
Message #2044 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Some of you will know Michael, Angus and Phil from Chch. They are in BA now, and this is something that michael sent to tango christchurch.
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
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Subject: [tango_christchurch] Letter from Buenos Aires
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:42:03 +1200
Hello to all you Christchurch Tango dancers.
Several years ago I heard a Astor Piazolla Tango on the radio and fell in love with Tango music. A couple of years ago I saw Emma dancing at my first Tango lesson and fell in love with the dance. Now my final love affair is with Buenos Aires where Tango originated. Like all love affairs you take the good with the bad. I'm a simple New Zealand country boy and as a rule I hate cities. BA is a noisy (very noisy), dirty, ugly, crowded place just like any big city of the world. However, for all that I love BA. The quiet green parks of Palermo, the mix of bohemia and antique shops with neglected tenements of San Telmo, the bustle of the Forida shopping malls, the bird life of the Ecolgicia Reservia Constantina Sur, upmarket deserted waterside, the awesome Teatre Colon, sitting in a cafe watching the world go by and of course Tango.
Its tempting to come here with the idea of learning all there is to know about Tango. But the reality is that if you know the rudiments of Tango well it is the experience of dancing in the milongas that counts. Its nice to do a few lessons to learn from those who know how to do it best but too many lessons just dulls the mind and takes it out of you. The atmosphere and spectacle of the old salons and old milongeuros.
Every milonga is different:
Dandi - this small club in San Telmo is typical of the SanTelmo tango scene. Slightly contrived and renovated to cash in on the Tango revival it none the less has character and style and is a lovely place to dance and watch others dance.
Confiteria Ideal - the most well known of dance salons the Ideal was made famous by Sally Potters film 'The TangoLesson'. Its a beautiful and ornate confiteria but is poorly maintained with paint peeling off the walls. Its easy tod ance here at the matinee milongas and you will find many foreigners here.
Porteño y Balarin - a more modern club with 2 dance floors, one for the oldies and one for the rest. A great place to dance, with good mix of music and people.
Niño Bien - a traditional ornate dance Salon where old milongeuros outnumber the women and foreigners like myself spend most of the evening trying to just get a dance.
Veijo Corero - a converted post office this salon is outwest of the city were ordinary folk come to dance and cut loose. They play a lot of salsa and other dance music. You don't see any flash dancing here, just a bunch of people who have a lot of fun.
La Caterdral - a really cool place. Its an old run down warehouse that has been taken over by a bunch of Tango Bohemians who maintain a kind of alternative Tango scene that rebels against the stuffy traditions of old school tango. Between tandas they often have impromptu skits and acts, including a modern dance group and some actors with tango dummies parodying tango. What alaugh. Unfortunately the dancing was crap. It seems the anarchy of bohemia doesn't bode well on the dance floor and the dance floor is very uneven (most dance in sandshoes).
Tango is also about music and I went an listened to live music at the Club de Vino. The in house trio - 'The Nestor Marconi Trio' played first and Nestor Marconi on the bandoneon was fantastic. They placed mainly Piazolla. The guests of the night was 'Quinteto Real' who are a very famous long running orchestra. They were also fantastic and played some more traditional Tangos. It was just so nice to sit and listen to real live Tango played the way it should be. The Club is specially set up for live Tango shows. They also had a brief Tango dance demonstration. Interestingly the couple dancing were from the Estampus Portenos that played in Chch last year.
I had a reminder that the Tango world really is a small world. I wandered into a Tango shoe store to find Alberto, Natalia and Liz (from Tauranga) trying n shoes. They are here with group doing BA. It was really cool to see them.
Tango on.
Chau, Michael
Subject: FW: Cabeceo Eye Contact
Created on 28 Mar 2004 20:17:32
Message #2030 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
This is from Bob Ramsey-Turner of Auckland. He's been in Buenos Aires for aweek, now.
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Subject: Cabeceo Eye Contact
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:49:10 +1200
From BsAs, at last my back is getting noticably better, I´m seeing a physio every day for massage and treatment, at one stage I though I wasn´t going to improve, but Saturday afternoon I went to my first lesson, $15 Pesos, about $7-50NZ. Temerature must have been close to 30 and humidity about 110%, I´ve never been so wet outside a shower. I could feel sweat running through my hair and down my back, but every one was in the same situation, tutors were top notch in both English and Spanish. Sadly I don´t think I learnt much. What I have learnt, with all the watching I,ve done while I´ve been comming to terms with Cabeceo, is, I now know what I want to learn.
In NZ we are spoilt with the amount of room we have to dance in. Most of the figures and turns we do, take at least 2 often 3 times the amount of space you will get here. I think Rick MacGarrey once talked of Dancing on a Plate or Dancing on aTile. Probably a good practice would be to draw a 1 metre sqaure on the floor and start dancing inside it, do that well on you´ve cracked it. To get what I want I think I will have to resort to private lessons, rather than group stuff.
The Cabeceo.
This is the Eye contact way of asking and accepting an invitation todance.
House rules:
1 You cannot go face to face and ask someone to dance.
2 Ladies may not move from their seats (go walk about) to achieve thecontact. What happens is ,having watched the dancers, you target the people you would like to partner. When the music starts, scan over the targets, dwelling for a while on each one, if they are facing in your general direction, a little body movement from you to attract the eye, then if the eyes meet, perhaps a raised eyebrow, a slight incline of the head to the floor, If a smile is the return, you´ve cracked it. One thing I figured out is that the guys have and added benefit, they can rove around the seated area looking for contact. I only noticed this when I went around to the far side of Salon Canning tos ay goodbye to Ricardo of Wellington. I had already changed my shoes, not able to dance but I noticed, that on that one trip round half the seated area, I had had 5 solid eye contacts, it was only later I realised the value of the trick, sorry ladies but its not on for you to do it.
Because I have this back problem, I spent the entire time at Salon Canning last night 11 pm to 3-30 am standing, because I have problems straightening out my back when I stand after a few minutes sitting. The fact that I was standing raised my profile, I was more visible. Things are easier if you are in a group the face to face question is obvious. Another thing that one must factor in is, if you are not seen dancing no one knows what you can do, so you don't get asked. I noted ladies who were not well experienced dancers getting lots of dances, but for what ever reason, if a person sat without dancing, then no one asked. The USA lady staying at the same place as I, had been here 6 weeks befores he had a dance at a milonga! and that was with me. So it aint easy. But it is worth the effort. Last night I danced 8 tandas with ladies from Paris, London, Mexico and your right BsAs. My Milonga brought more smiles than my Tango. The moment the Milonga music started the lady I had the first Milonga with was giving me eye. If I dont end now I will get carried out on a stretcher.
Catch you all later
Subject: Cabecear- from Geoff and Enrique
Created on 28 May 2004 01:00:51
Message #2154 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Apologies to people who are not interested in this topic. Please delete, in that case. I've been asked to send out an e-mail that I wrote, presenting my misgivings, for an offline conversation on this topic. I've included Enrique's response. Whether you agree or not with either view, they're both sent with the best of intentions, so play nice when you see us!.
Geoff
Here's my e-mail to the moderators, Peter and Nancy:
My only reservations are:
1/ Lila, our hostess in BA, said that cabecear is used at a distance and between people who aren't friendly. Friends ask each other to dance all the time, cabecear is just the formal aspect and it's not a rule.
2/ It works in BA because the milongas are brightly lit and you can see people's eyes, plus you are talking about a big crowd of people separated by metres and metres of floorspace. If a man/woman turns you down thenthere's always another, metres away, and who hasn't seen you be refused. Here we're separated by inches and I think it's a bit silly.
3/ Cabecear is less about 'empowering the woman', it's more about protecting the man from the humiliation of being turned down.
4/ It was very noticeable that it was more difficult to say hello to people because they thought that you might be trying to cabecear them, when in fact you just wanted to be nice and 'buy the world a Coke'. It might reduce the social interaction a bit and the bigger BA milongas are emotionally cold in many ways. It's just a dance has a very clear meaning for many of the dancers there, and a lot of dances look like they were more like 'transactions' after they're over. Many people walk away from each other after dances, even between very good dancers, like it meant nothing to them.
5/ It makes it very easy for people who aren't good dancers to sit out for ages, not dancing at all and not getting a chance to improve. From that point of view I see it as having potential to damage the scene, but 'how they do it in BA' has a mystique in Wellington and I think it's better to send this out and allow people to read it and make the call themselves.
Here is Enrique's response:
Peter : can you please forward this to Gordon and Geoff ? And also, if their answers went to the tango salsa group, forward this to the group as well. I believe that both of the answers are ok.
Also, Geoff is right when he says about cabecear being something done to strangers, or from the distance. Inbs as, friends do ask verbally to dance. The problem is: in buenos aires, women have no problem saying no. Here, for some reason, they feel uncomfortable saying no. So, if it makes it more comfortable for them to say no by looking away than by saying no personally, I believe we could give it a try. I don't know why that happens, all I know is that it happens, and we have a chance to help some ladies feel better. I guess it is like when someone likes a lady, and she doesn't like you back, but you are such a nice person ....They really wish they didn't need to tell you they see you as a friend. They would be more comfortable if you pick this up from the hints,and stop trying to ask them out.
What happens here is that some men look from the distance. The ladies lookaway. Next, the man ignores the wish of the lady and goes on to sit at the same table that she is, talk to her, and end up asking her to dance anyway. This is the situation we thought we might change. Perhaps ladies talk different to me because I am an outsider. But you would be surprised at the number of ladies who told me that they dance with certain men just to be polite, not because they want (or like) to.
As for Gordon and the severe penalty I impose. It is not so much a penalty, but until they get comfortable saying no, it is an excuse for anyone who doesn't want to dance and is afraid to be considered rude. This way, people only get offended at me (nothing new there). I am more than happy to pay that price, if it will mean that the people on the list will start enjoying the milongas more. We discussed this in class with our students, and they all agreed to it.
So please, if you can respect their efforts, try to help them. One last word : I did not mean to say everyone should do this. You are absolutely free to do as you like. All I asked for is, when you want to dance with someone on the list, try to do the eye contact first. If you don't want to, it's ok. But there is a chance that you will be dancing with someone who didn't want to dance withyou. I know we are all grown ups, and that nobody should get offended by being refused, and that no one should be afraid of saying no. But that is not the way things are in Wellington right now. Last Sunday at Latinos I was talking to a woman who told me that she got to the point were no hints were good enough for one of the top dancers and teachers to stop asking her to dance. She had to start getting up and leaving the room for him to understand that she didn't want to dance. Once again thanks to those of you who took the time to read this.
Enrique
Subject: The Eyes have it!
Created on 27 May 2004 07:14:29
Message #2148 of 3453
Posted By Gordon Cessford
Hi there,
Really nice writing style Enrique. I really liked reading the posting, though I have some concern about the topic itself. I don't have a particular problem with the 'eye-thing' as a form of personal behaviour and preference in BA - when in Rome, do as the Romans do etc....And its fine among those that want to do that among themselves in other places, but I'm not so sure I'm keen on the heavy enforcement concept - that really affects everyone else....TO QUOTE: The way our regular students and us will try to enforce it is if any of our male students asks a lady to dance verbally he will not come to our next set of lessons. If any of our female students says yes to a man whoa sks them verbally, they will not come to our next set of lessons. Gotta say that is a bit extreme - and by default it is attempting to impose a fairly specialised dancing protocol among a wider array of folks - largely through guilt.
If we want to dance with those people, we have to play it that way, otherwise they go into exile and we end up feeling like dastardly cads!! That's pretty coercive eh! Who's going to enforce it? Couldn't you just have a $2 fine jar or something similar - like some places have fors wearing? A better way to deal with it is to get the people in your classest o simply apply that protocol among themselves with some form of less extreme 'encouragement', and leave the rest of us out of that system. You may have noticed that the 'eye-thing' happens a lot anyway in Wellington - I use it myself a lot of the time as its practical and easy across a crowded room - but its not the only way. I really don't see the need to apply it as some sort of single exclusive code, though it has many practical values -which is why I use it a lot of the time myself.
Actually I think the idea is a really good practise exercise for going to BA, but I'm not so sure that the cultural background to it in Argentina matches the cultural background of people here. From my own personal perspective I gotta say it doesn't always fit very well with my outgoing personality and social preferences. And I'm not too sure how it fits in with the open friendly easy-going and inclusive 'kiwi' dance culture which has been complimented on by many visitors to Wellington. Personally, I am grownup enough to take a simple 'No' for answer without going into 'ego-crash'. Most people say 'no' one way or another many times in a day, so I don't seewhy saying so at a dance is any different. Plenty of people have said no tome at various dances at one time or another - that's cool. On the other hand if someone asks me to dance, my own personal ethic is to accept and enjoy unless I have a pretty good reason - I'm stuffed, I need a drink, I've got way to hot and drippy, or I've just had my leg bitten off by a crocodile (thats about the only thing that would stop Geoff!!).
Normally I'll accept though. If the partner is different-in-dance from what I am normally comfortable with, then I adjust. I've discovered over the years that it's a really good way to grow your dance and sometimes turns out to be a real revelation. Obviously if someone is personally offensive in behaviour then I would get out of that situation. It happened once years ago with a lady on a salsa night who accosted me but turned out to be quite drunk and obnoxious -it was not very nice (don't worry - its nobody I'd ever seen before or since...).
That said, I know there are bound to be some partners that might not enjoy my normal style at all, or on a particular night, or when the milonga is particularly crazy - which is completely cool with me. But hey - I can always adapt my style to suit that partner as required.....and if after that we still haven't 'connected' - well so be it...As far as I am concerned, anyone can come up and ask me to dance if they want to - and I will continue to encourage others to do that if they want to- so we don't get lots of unnecessary awkwardness and poor unfamiliar peoples tuck at a table as wall-flowers, which is a real nightmare for beginners or visiting dancers. We gotta look after them too!
I remember getting 'the eye'a lot when I was in BA in 2000 - but when I first got there I knew nothing about it - Geez I missed lots of dances for a while!! All in all I just like things to be simple and real - no games and lots of smiles. I am quite comfortable to engage in this to help out, but it will not be exclusively. For what it is worth, that's my opinion - I'd be interested if anyone else has one.....
Cheers Gordon
PS: Enrique - I definitely understand that you're just trying to help people overcome various awkwardness - so good on you for coming up with something positive to do about it. Maybe discuss it with your class and come up with a less serious means of encouraging/enforcing it, and allow for some space for other ways as well.
Subject: Message to the Wellington tango dancers - from Enrique
Created on 27 May 2004 03:57:52
Message #2146 of 3453
Posted By Peter Te Papa
View discussion(2 messages)
Hi.
For those of you who don't know me, I am a tango dancer who has been living and teaching tango (ocasionally) in Wellington for the last 3 years.
This message is related to a subject that has come up enough times for a group of dancers to try to do something about it.
The subject is: What should a lady do if she really doesn't want to dance with a particular person in a given night? They really feel like saying no, but are afraid to be considered rude. So, they end up dancing without enjoying it. What I would like to say is: Women have a right to say no. It should not be considered rude. More rude is men taking advantage of the etiquette to force women to dance with them. Tango is a very intimate dance. Very few people enjoy dancing with everybody.
Even the best couples, married, in love forever, will have some days when they don't feel like dancing tango with each other. The fact that a lady doesn't want to dance with a man ONLY MEANS THAT IN THAT PARTICULAR DAY/MOMENT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DANCE WITH HIM. It does not mean that the man is a bad dancer. Or a bad person. Or too ugly. Or too old. Or too short. There are many variables in tango dancing. Lots of things have to happen for two people to actually enjoy tango argentino.
The same way people can have two different opinions about politics, friendship, etc; they can feel the music differently. Find different steps enjoyable. Some might like to dance close. Others with a bit more distance. Some women consider me a good dancer and like to dance with me. Others just can't stand the way I dance, and hate dancing with me. It is bound to happen.
The perfect male dancer who gets every woman to enjoy dancing with him does not exist. Right now ladies who don't want to dance with a man here have two choices: a) Say no and be considered rude. b) Say yes, and think how many dances must she dance till she can say thanks and stop. It is obvious that both options are uncomfortable for the ladies. A group of students attending the lessons I teach with Amy have decided to try one of my sugestions (at least for some time): When a man wants to ask a lady to dance, he has to establish eye contact. If the lady holds the contact, he will cabecear (don't know the translation, it is a barely perceptible inclination of the head towards the dance floor). If the lady smiles, they will dance. If the lady looks away, the man should look for some other woman to dance with (there are usually more women than men). It's a very small change.
By avoiding going all the way over to where the lady is sitting, and asking them to dance in front of everyone (what will make it really embarrasing for her to say no), we discretly ask from a distance. You can do that as you like. What I do is: when I get to a dance, I stay away from where the ladies are, giving them plenty of space. This way, if a lady doesn't want to dance with me she just has to avoid looking in my direction. Even if our eyes meet, she can still look away (since we are really apart, it is perfectly normal to look on). The most important thing about this is that I know I will not ask a lady who doesn't want to dance with me. We might not get to dance with whom we want to, but we have to accept that. At least I, personally, don't like to dance with a woman who said yes to be polite.
This small change will make many ladies feel much more at ease in the milongas. It costs nothing. And everyone gets practice for when they go to Buenos Aires. One more thing for you guys: women are very smart. And subtle. We don't need to stare at them for 8 hours because they might not have noticed I was looking at them the first 7 hours and 59 minutes. And, if they look away, they mean it. It's not like I know she looked away the last 17 times I looked at her, but that's just because she didn't realize I wanted to dance with her. It would be great to respect the ladies right to say no.
Dancing with women is not a right that we have. It's a privilege that they grant us. Of course, it is your choice to do it, or to keep things the way they've been so far. The way our regular students and us will try to enforce it is: if any of our male students asks a lady to dance verbally he will not come to our next set of lessons. If any of our female students says yes to a man who asks them verbally, they will not come to our next set of lessons. Since our students seem to enjoy our lessons, they will be trying very hard to work via eye contact. So, guys, the girls who will say no unless you ask them by stablishing eye contact and indicating the dance floor are: Tessa, Belinda, Rabiya, Jane. ( from Jane and Ian ), Lorraine, Liuba (Christine),Sarah.
Subject: Leaving NZ
Created on 23 Jun 2004 07:38:23
Message #2192 of 3454
Posted By Nancy NicholsAcevedo
Hi everyone;
Just thought I'd let you all know that I will be leaving NZ at the end of September this year.
I plan to return to Boston. I have really been missing my family the last year or so, and want to connect in with my parents and brothers and their families, while my parents are still available and lively. A number of things have worked together to bring me to this decision - one of them being the closing of my tango event activities. This was really a deep personal grief. However, it is more likely that I will get to BA when I am living in the US. And I may see some of you there over time.
It's three months out now, but thought it was worth putting the word out so that people know. I don't know how often I will get either to tango or salsa dances. I do have very significant budget constraints. I'll do what I can, and see you when I do.
Happy dancing
Nancy
Nancy Nichols-Acevedo
NaNA & Co
PO Box 27 520 Marion Square
Wellington
04 475 3011
mobile 021 44 NaNA [6262]
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Subject: Mark''s BA Tango Festival Stories!!
Created on 20 Oct 2004 08:58:12
Message #2382 of 3454
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Don´t cry for me, I´m in Argentina.
A bit of news and a few impressions from Mecca for the tango-starved or merely curious back home.
Hola y Buenos Dias from sunny, smoggy Buenos Aires. Ten of my 29 days are gone, suddenly, and the tango has indeed been having it´s way with me. Day
one was 41 hours long (the plane trip across the dateline does that) including 6 hours in a milonga, and it´s been 8 to 10 hours dancing a day and 5 to 6 hours sleep ever since.
I´ve been following Neville Waisbrod´s excellent guide for new tanguerros in BsAs, and it´s 100% excellent. I made a couple of copies for folk at the tango festival, hope that´s OK Neville. With a sexy cover on it the guide, Neville, it would be a commercial proposition!
The World Tango Festival is the mixed bag of styles and methods expected. One of the avanzados/maestros (advanced and teachers) classes I did with Gachi Fernandez & Sergio Cortazzo consisted of a rotating whirl of a routine with big sacadas, ganchos on the fly and 2 jumps. Another with Gloria & Eduardo Arquimbau was on tangos antiguos and they just started from the very beginning and taught basic steps. Beautifully, clearly and with great humour though. I learned as much about how to teach tango as about tangos antiguos.
Apart from that I have just been to the opening show, and avoided the rest of the activities studiously. Mostly, my enthusiasm for dancing with a very mixed ability group from all over the world when I could be somewhere else dancing with las chicas Argentinas (well dancing with some and being politely ignored by others!) is somehow disappeared. It´s been good to take class with some of the big names in tango but I think there comes a time when the organization (and the English translations!) of big BsAs tango festivals is no longer an attraction; ie I personally have hit the wall with them. The Australian and NZ festivals are actually better for me because of the concentration of all the keen and advanced people from one country, I think they are important events for tango in our countries, whereas in Argentina the tango scene here doesn´t need these festivals, it is a great way to bring in some dolares for the top teachers and the tango industry here though.
Anyway, enough politix. Buenos Aires is still it´s crazy battered elegant self. You still get as much diesel and cigarette smoke in a day as you get in 6 months in NZ, mixed with organic smells of all description from the delightful to the disgusting. The air is just flavoured with stuff here, seldom does it smell clean! Engineer workshops are crowded in with hairdressers and the obligatory café on every corner, zoning is contrary to latino thinking. There´s a rich end of town and a poor end, that´s all.
Met some tanguerros from Ramos Mejia (way out in the burbs about 15 km the centre). They can´t believe anyone would pay $400 US a month for an apartment, like me (it´s $20 NZ per day, about what it costs for a backpackers in NZ). They are more like $100 out there. On the other hand I could stay at ;Dandi Royal (a tango guest house of the magnificent variety) 4 blocks down my dirty smelly character ridden street for $400 US a night.
You get some pretty big contrasts around here, there has been time for the rich to get really rich and the poor to get really poor. Oops, more politics. This is more or less about dancing after all!
The tango industry seems bigger and better organized than when I was here in 2001. There´s plenty of tango guest houses now (mostly a lot cheaper than Dandi), and more and better tango shops. There are general shops now where you can get shoes, discs, dresses and suits, videos and posters, tango ties and tieclips, pottery figurines, keyrings, tango kitchen sinks all in the same place.
Tango shoes are quite flashy now. There´s printed leather, different combinations of colours (ie red on the front, green on the heel), metallic heels etc etc. Hardly anyone who is anyone is wearing plain black, and closed toes are definitely for someone´s mother. Sorry ladies, but that´s what I see with my eyes.
The young women here are still wearing their jeans sprayed on but hardly a shred of underwear is sticking out over the top; if the midriff is on display it´ worth showing and you never ever ever see even a hint of butt crack like you get in NZ. Sexy is optional here but tasteful is mandatory. Even in the poor parts of town I feel underdressed in a t-shirt. The waiters (all professional, no students scraping a penny together here) typically wear waistcoat and bowtie. They have the air of a good old-fashioned butler, and even in the cheapest place you are served at your table. To approach the counter would be most unusual here.
Some highlights :
1) Tango show at Salon Canning. 3 twenty something couples in Gothic. They started with traditional done flash, worked their individual way through Piazzolla to a synchronized number to Narcotango. This was some of the most avante-garde show tango I´ve seen, and I´ve seen some. The women were off the ground about half the time, the level was astronomical. All for the 5 peso (NZ $2.50) price of admission, and we got a top knotch 5 hour milonga
as well!
2) For contrast, $75 NZ tango show at Centro Astor Piazzolla. Just one of those things you ;gotta do as a tango tourist. I went with Pedro and Laura (teachers from Perth), Pedro´s Mum and their bunch of Perthian women, who are good humour. Art food, all the wine you can drink, full hardworking tango orchestra, 2 great singers and 3 fabulous dance couples in an elegant theatre with balconies and magnificent stairs, etc etc. A dangerous mix! The show was stolen by Roberto Reis and partner. He in full suit, she in latex catsuit and 4 inch heels for their most amazing rendition of Libertango. Reminds one of an impressionist painting mixed with tango and a combat scene from starwars.
3) Children in the little park next to my apartamento. Someone has given these little darlings a big bass drum, a conga and some cymbals. Me trying to sleep after being out all night for 4 nights in a row, them laying down a groove to put the Wellington Batucada to shame. Eventually I gave up and got up. They went on for four hours!
4) Sunday night milonga at club CocoLoco in Ramos Mejia with my new found friend Eduardo the tango teacher from out back and his gang. I suspect I´m the only foreigner they´ve had there. Mostly they didn´t know NZ existed, let alone that there could be tango there. Great mix of young and old, this one is a real community event. At closing time I had to kiss all the stubbly old guys as well as the ladies. Gotta take the rough with the smooth in this town!
5) Gustavo Naviera and Giselle Anne´s regular class para avanzados in la Manufactura Papelera, a reworked industrial building in the South end of grimy old San Telmo, with it´s barred windows and garage door covered shopfronts splattered with grafitti and it´s cobbled streets with dirty, narrow broken old pavements. You go in off this mean street into a cool gallery with weird art. Downstairs the GG´s teach extreme tango to extreme students. Many of these students teach tango here, 2 of them have taught at Cosmotango. Bring your own partner and don´t expect the GG´s to slow down or help you with basic stuff. A colgada is considered as just a regular move here. Somehow the entrada is 15 pesos. $7.50 NZ for the most advanced class I´ve seen, let alone done, with the best in the world. It doesn´t seem right somehow. Never mind, a lady I met in the milongas who wouldn´t dance with me because I look like an Americano and she doesn´t know me and I might make her look bad was there. Maybe I´ll merit a quick dance next week, who can know.
OK, gotta go or I´ll be late for class. Hasta pronto (see you all too soon)
from Mecca Marcos en Buenos Aires.
Subject: Buenos Aires rocks (''n'' rolls)
Created on 18 Dec 2004 12:37:11
Message #2471 of 3454
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
This is from Robert and Antoinette of Chch who have relocated to Buenos Aires for 6 months!
Geoff
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Subject: [tango_christchurch] Buenos Aires rocks ('n' rolls)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:56:23 +1300
Hola a todos!
It's a hot, sunny day in Buenos Aires, we're just back from a matinee milonga and our heads are busy with a new perspective on jiros learned in the class beforehand. We have all these lovely emails from Christchurch folk wondering how it's going and it's about time we responded.
The truth is we didn't hit the dance floors running (or dancing even), and we've spent more time than expected feeling bamboozled in this tango jungle.
It all sounded so straightforward! You turn up, buy a new pair of shoes (or two), spend a week going to every milonga running, find the teacher you like best, start classes, make lots of friends and spend as many as possible blissful days in Mecca learning to be beautiful tango dancers, naturally miraculously becoming fluent Spanish speakers along the way. We have six months here; we're not even in a hurry.
Ironically, we reckon that might have been our surprise set-back: when you turn up in BA with two or three weeks to pack in as much tango experiences you can you're pretty focused. We've turned up and set up home in a central city working-class neighbourhood where tall blond men are an anomaly and locals aren't accustomed to speaking slowly for gringo comprehension. After a week we were both back at work full time (from home for our NZ employers) so we'd had just enough time to work out our neighbourhood and getting around town, to develop a full comprehension of the immense gaps in our knowledge of Spanish and experience some of the culture shock that comes from living in a city rather than being a visitor to it. What we didn't come across anywhere for two whole weeks was the essential, can't-live-without-them, magazines El Tangauta and BA Tango, which list the majority of classes and milongas running (along with other essentials like local beauticians and masseuses...). Therefore, having started out thinking No pressure, we were suddenly weeks into living in BA and feeling like we didn't have a clue where or how to dance tango. That's not how it was supposed to go! But then, we came here to be challenged...
Our first Saturday night out dancing we had no idea which one of the 15 milongas on at various times over the afternoon, evening and through till 5am was the best to go to. With nothing to guide us we picked Lo de Celia because we'd heard good things about it. We've heard lots of milonga names over the last three years and knew we must go to Confiteria Ideal, Salon Canning, Lo de Celia, Gricel... etc. What we hadn't realised was that each of these venues has milongas held by different people on different nights, and even different people on the same night. Salon Canning on a Thursday night isn't as good as Salon Canning on, say, Friday early evening.
As we learned within seconds of walking in, Lo de Celia might well be good on various nights of the week, but Saturday night at 11.30 when you're two 30-odd-year-old foreigners and one non-tango tourist (we had a friend from NZ with us) is not the best choice... every person in the room was 20 to 30 years our senior, the music was full of static and played at a deafening level, everyone but us had reserved a table. Our Wellington friend out to see tango for the first time may well have been put off for life. He likened it to a bingo hall and made bad jokes about bingo-tango, and he was visibly bemused by the extraordinary display of social etiquette: short-skirted women each sitting alone at a small square table upon which sat:
* a purse
* cigarettes
* ashtray
* a bottle of water
* a glass of champagne
* and often a fan.
Elsewhere were men, sitting alone or in groups, cigarettes at hand. The floor is empty when the music begins. A man stands up, walks slowly across the floor, and, miraculously, a woman has arrived seemingly by prior arrangement (our friend hadn't seen the cabezado the eye contact and nod to ask and accept the dance it's very subtle!). This happened over and over until the floor was full of dancers, all of them moving in time to the music and dancing beautifully simple steps. It was fascinating: anyone who went to Pecky, Anibal, and Martin's classes when they were in Christchurch might recall the 'milonguero' rhythm that Pecky taught this is the way everyone in the room was dancing and it was beautiful to watch. However, we felt like the sore thumbs sticking out! So we beat a hasty retreat and tried another milonga, which fortunately is an easy thing to do in a city where there are milongas going at 10 to 15 different venues at almost any time between 3pm and 6am.
We've been lucky enough to have Joaquin Amenabar (the Bandoneon player whose musicality workshops in Christchurch impressed so many of us) inviting us often to milongas or out to lunch to talk about both Buenos Aires and tango (naturally mostly tango!). He's full of handy tips about how to get dances - and how to refuse:-) - which milongas/teachers to go to/avoid and little tidbits about the music that's playing. He complains, though, that many DJs still haven't learnt not to play more than three milongas in a row - it's true that the floor thins out a lot when milonga comes on, which we've always associated with NZ dancers being fearful of the snappy rhythm that's so hard to get the hang of. Joaquin reckons that here it's because people get bored of the 'simple' rhythm! We've seen some amazing dancing, and plenty of beginners on the floor - who are not all gringo tourists (and some of the amazing dancers are gringos too). The range of levels and styles is VERY WIDE and we don't feel uncomfortable or out of place at the majority of milongas. Across different milongas you'll see men back-stepping (into you if you're not careful), people trying out their big sweepy moves on crowded dancefloors, people dancing extraordinary moves seemingly on one spot and miraculously avoiding contact with their fellow dancers on the floor, in some places - Salon Canning on a Sunday night for example - there's a 'force-field' of space around each couple which nobody ever crosses, so the floor flows beautifully and there's always enough room, even when there's not much room.
Outfits vary a lot too! From cargo pants, sneakers, and sandals to flash suits, skimpy sparkly little dresses and dauntingly high, twig-thin heels. There seems to be a thing at the moment for see-through white pants and really dark underwear (go figure) which is highly distracting. It sounds like Carol is keen to take responsibility for starting this particular trend in Christchurch; see her for details.
One of the most fabulous things about Buenos Aires tango is the plethora of live performances and bands to see and dance to. We've seen Joaquin's orchestra a couple of times, we're off to Color tango tonight, we saw Narcotango the other night, next week we're looking forward to Juanjo Dominguez on Thursday and Adriana Valera on Wednesday (at Torquato Tasso, Gloria thanks for the advice!). There are numerous tango dancers performing every night of the week: last night we were delighted to catch Los Hermanos Marcanas, two brothers who do a technically superb and hilarious show together. Last week we saw Carlos Gavito, who seems to be highly revered by his students: many of them cried as he danced (he's been very ill with cancer). At every milonga we've been to teachers perform stage tango, and often it's fabulous to watch.
At Salon Canning last week, after the usual tango show, we were treated to a couple of young dancers performing rock and roll. It was so incredible to watch and we were so entertained by the enthusiastic flips and swings and sweeps and turns - at a time when neither of us yet had the courage to look at a fellow dancer from the waist up for fear of having to ask/being asked to dance (or worse, rejection!) - that we were considering swapping genres. The irony was not lost on us: taking up tango in Australasia, we move to Buenos Aires to immerse ourselves, only to take up rock'n'roll. Perhaps we then move on to the States for further immersion, only to discover a fascination for Irish dancing. On to Ireland, but lo! They have great Viennese Waltz teachers... Oh, how dance can open up your world! Anyway, we're leveled out now, we can look people directly in the eye with less fear (but always a little) and rock'n'roll is great just for watching.
We've only just begun going to classes and it's a game of hit and miss because there are HUNDREDS of teachers to choose from. Fortunately classes with most teachers average at NZ$5 per person, so we can afford to try out whichever classes suit our available time until we find the ones that suit us. The best lesson we've learned is to attend classes before milongas (most have one, or a class and a practica even better). It's still hit and miss who you'll have teaching you, what style of dance they teach and whether they're good at teaching. Just because it's Mecca doesn't mean everyone's fabulous! - but it's a great way to meet people and ensure a few dances at the milonga later. We've come across a couple of very good teachers and a couple who didn't suit us so well, but as mentioned before, we're not in a hurry.
Unlike to digress - taxi drivers, bus drivers, train drivers, drivers of anything in Buenos Aires, who are all clearly greatly pressed for time and have a different view to ours about who is responsible for keeping said vehicle on the road/track. We think it's them and we don't trust them a bit because they think it's God. Non-existent road rules - heaven only knows if there's a speed limit here - mean the unwritten law is "bravest man wins". Taxi drivers hedge their bets at all times by driving along the centre line rather than in the lanes, ensuring quick and alarming swerves to left or right can be made at any time. Intersections without traffic lights are crossed first by whoever is in a greater rush and if there's a near miss (there are many) the driver will cross himself and, thus ensured of his safety, carry on as normal. Recently, however, our driver started nodding off at an intersection, which simply won't get him anywhere.
Our apartment is only 10 minutes from the CBD by tube, but this a no more comfortable option. Not that you would mention it to the locals, who are all much enamored of the train on our particular line. It must have been built in the twenties or thereabouts. Made entirely of old, dry, perfectly inflammable wood and due to collapse in upon itself at any moment (no doubt while we're on it), it has flexy walls, the windows are always left open, and the doors don't lock, so that as the train is hurtling in to each station people due to get off are able to open the doors in preparation, often jumping on to the platform while the train's still moving. Today one of the doors beside us simply didn't close so we held on for dear life (whilst maintaining our calm, I'm-a-local-been-doing-this-for-years exterior) as we hurtled through the tunnel past trains a hand-span away on the neighbouring line.
Transport woes aside though, we're starting to learn the ways of living and dancing in BA. The language keeps us perfectly mentally challenged so that we're not always a hundred percent sure we'll get what we ordered in a café, that the taxi driver will deliver us to the address we gave; that we've said yes to something we should have said no to. We're drinking far more beer than is healthy it's very hot, beer's the only thing for it not helped at all by the food on offer: we're on the search for a selection of restaurants whose menus don't contain only schnitzel, steak, chips and pizza. Is a lightly steamed brocolli flower so much ask for?! But, we're very happy with our lucky lot. Working, playing, dancing and being constantly challenged by a new environment and, of course, every step of tango we dance.
Anyway, if you've got this far through this extremely long email it's probably time to get back to work! :-) Please feel free to write back to us (at either of the addresses below) with any news or gossip about tango in Christchurch, which despite all that's on offer here we miss very much. It's a truly divine tango scene we have there and no matter how great BA turns out to be for us, it'll be great to get back to it!
Regards from afar, and happy holidays to everyone!
Robert and Antoinette
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www.tango.gen.nz/christchurch
Subject: More Notes from a female perspective on BA
Created on 25 Apr 2004 02:56:45
Message #2086 of 3453
Posted By Liz
Well I have returned home from the trip of a life time.
I couldn't find much time while I was away to write up more of my thoughts so I'll do it now .
Every minute of every day was prettty packed with things to do.
It was great to meet up with Geoff, Beth and Bob. We caught up a few times, it is so fantastic to meet up with friends for a meal to talk tango.
Info
This trip has been a mix of dancing, shopping and a little site seeing so finding out what is on and where is really useful.
Getting tourist and tango brochures was not that easy. They seem to dissapear as soon as they hit the street. I didn't manage to find the free guide to milongas and classes till the last day, I read other peoples. Next time I will try to get the tourist and tango magazines/brochures early on and use them to plan out my trip. There are so many things I wanted to do but ran out of time. The Dept of tourism have a very good brochure which you can get by e-mailing them and they will send it to where you are staying in BA (they don't send overseas) .
The e-mail address is mailto:
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. The information centres tend to have only a few brochures unless you can find the one located on the Puerto Madero which apparently is well stocked because very few tourists actually find it.
Other brochures or magazines you need to locate are;
BA Tango
El Tangauta
The Tango Map
Buenos Aires Day & Night (from http://www.TangoL.com www.TangoL.com)
travel agency
Fabulous teachers
The really well known teachers make a considerable amount of money in US$ giving private classes to those who ask. But some of them have a system of helping a few dancers which they take a liking to. I was lucky enough to be invited to a private class given by El Pulpo and Luisa. It was 3 hours of very intense training. I was with 3 other students and it was brilliant. They asked a meagre $30pesos. Unbelievably cheap for private tutition. They seem to be motivated to help some dancers, they select the students they will help and invite them to these classes. I was selected (I think) because I had become freinds with these people.
They are so very kind and made me very welcome. At the end of my three hours Luisa said she was pleased with progress and that at Tuesdays class she would help me work on one of my problems and next Saturday we could then concentrate on something else... I almost cried when I told
them I was returning to NZ and couldn't come again. I found myself in a fabulous learning position and then I had to go home. I am seriously considering going back very soon....before they forget me.
Speaking of which, they told me they knew a couple of kiwis.... John Flower and Mark Sidebotham. So I hope they remember me now too.
Overseas Tango Teachers
It seems that the place is full of overseas tango teachers visiting to refresh or enjoy tango. I met so many, at last count it was 14 of them and those were just the ones I danced with. There were 2 from America who I remember very fondly and one very special one from Holland. The Dutch teacher danced with me after seeing me dance with one of Pulpo's top students and he thought "wow, I must dance with her". Anyway, I'm not sure I lived up to the expectation but for me the dancing with him was fabululous and we became firm friends. We spent as much time together as we could but it was at the tail end of my trip so I was very sad to say goodbye to him. He has been dancing Tango for 14 years and teaching for 7. He has his own tango school and these days does not have any other job but to teach tango. That alone impresed me - someone who could make a living from teaching tango. He was even commissioned to write a book on Tango which looks really awesome....I can't tell how good it is to read because it is in Dutch. He is also a collector of antique tango memorabilia, especially music scores. He was not a flashy dancer, and yet he easily did the flashy moves and it felt so natural. He was my favourite dance partner of BA because he made me feel so safe on the dance floor. I just disconnected my brain and we danced and every step felt perfect and it was like being with some one who just knew me so well. When I finally said goodbye, to leave for the plane, he gave me an original mint 1914 tango music score - wow. Tango dancers sure know how to impress a girl.
Teaching Techniques
There are lots of places to go for classes. Each time different groups will turn up. So some teachers tend to teach the same lesson over and over because their students are always new. Others vary their classes. But either way, almost all of them will start at the beginners level (BA beginners that is, is they do know all the basics) and they will develop a technique or a figure through the levels up to the advanced. So those who reach their level should stop at that part of the class and just work on what they have learned. Some teachers will separate their classes into levels and they choose which level you are at.
Some of the best teachers teach technique and exercises rather than figures. I now have a collection of exercises to do to help me to fix up some of my tango weaknesses. This is great, so I can practice and get better all on my own.
Real estate
I checked out the prices on Real Estate in BA . I think their economy is going to recover, so I think it would be a fabulous investment. Whether I'd be prepared to put my money where my mouth is could be challenged but I am thinking about it. There is also the romantic notion of having an apartment in Buenos Aires. I found a perfectly suitable 2 bedroom place in a safe part of town for $18,500 US so that is about $30,000 NZ. And if the economy takes off then not only will my holidays be cheap but I will have made money. The down side is of course the system in BA, where it is hard to pay the bills and get things done. But I am thinking of it. If anyone else is interested in the idea let me know it might motivate me to take it further.
Encargardo
I was visiting a very posh apartment one day for a class. The button to the apartment sounded a bell and when a voice came over the speaker I responded by pushing the mic button (encargardo) and talking back. After a few sentences were exchanged a man came to the door in a very irate state. Once he had finished yelling at me I was able to establish that he was the caretaker and I had not been pushing the microphone button, rather I had been pushing his button (literally) for quite long and noisy period of time. I apologised profusely and he grumbled off. Later the teacher arrived to let me in, I cautiously entered and hoped to avoid seeing the caretaker again.
My Australian buddies stood up for me.
For those of you who know me well you will know I am a great animal lover. I took great pleasure feeding the odd stray while I was away. It was pointed out to me that it would be nice if I would feed some of the hungry children too. I would have done but it was really hard because but when you help them they flock you for more. I have had beggars chasing me down the street which is very unpleasant.
Anyway, because I like to help creatures I got myself into a spot of bother. I was in a crowd of people when I saw some children hurting a small creature and laughing. I immediately went over and removed it from them and took it a good distance away and released it (it managed to bite me first though). When I returned my friends said that someone in the crowd had said "Americanos, they help little animals but kill Arabs by the thousands". So my friend said to them "She is not an American, She is from New Zealand and New Zealanders don't kill anyone!"
Apparently they apologised.
Recipe for Flan.
Flan is like the French Creme Caramel and it is very addictive. I expressed my concern regarding being away from flan when I get back to NZ. The Argentinean looked at me in horror and said "you don't have flan in NZ?". As if not having flan made us a third world country.
I managed to get a recipe for flan to help my transition back to NZ.
here it is...
Take 1 litre of full cream milk
1 carton of 12 eggs
12 tablespoons of sugar and a touch of vanilla essence
Blend eggs first then add milk and finally sugar and vanilla.
Make a caramel sauce (just sugar and water boiled up till brown but not burnt)
Put a little caramel in the cooking container and then add the mixture
and bake in medium oven for 30 to 45 min. Put a container of water in
oven too to keep moist.
Test that it is ready by applying tip of knife. It is cooked when the knife remains clean when it has cut into the flan.
And that is it for me.
I can't wait to return to BA.
See you on the dance floor.
Liz
Subject: Another BA story
Created on 21 Apr 2004 18:16:55
Message #2080 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Hi there,
The shopping here is incredible, Christian Dior and Yves St laurent suits for $NZ350, cashmere/merino jerseys for $NZ20 and scarves for $NZ12. I´ll do all my clothes shopping here in future!
My new dance shoes seem to be better as street dancing shoes, but I expected that. My ballroom shoes are far better for me for tango, giving much more feel for the floor and allow my foot to balance me better. The tango shoes are so structured and the sole is so inflexible that your foot is just wedged in there and is basically passive, so your body placement over the foot has to be much better. I´ll give it a punt for a bit longer but they´re so cheap here that I really can´t complain.
Our first lesson was basically a disaster, but I learned a few good exercises. The lesson wasn´t ultimately difficult, it was just the way it was taught and Beth and I were basically on our own trying to figure it out. Thank God she´s here!
The next day we went to a lesson with Diego Alvaro, a friend of Maida Zanaboni who she brought out to Auckland last year. That was more like a guided practica and was much better and I now know how to do a milonguero giro, which we had been trying to figure out.
Last night I met a milonguero who wants to teach me estilo milonguero from Thursday. He thinks I dance ´Muy bien´ but I wasn´t dancing well at the time and I think that he says that to anyone that he wants to teach (which is probably anyone better than a beginner), but he´s an amazing dancer! He has no English so it may be a challenge for my miniscule Español.
I was at El Beso when I met him and found it a little disturbing in that it there wasn´t a woman over 40 in the place and most were 20-30, very beautiful, dressed to kill and utterly focussed on dancing with men between 60-80 years old. These old guys were revelling in their desirability but I had to wonder where their wives were. I was the worst dancer in the place but El Beso on Tuesday night is apparently the best place in town, so I wasn´t too worried. I actually danced a couple of times but only because Jorge the Milonguero offered me a woman (and that´s how it felt, it wasn´t nice but she wasn´t going to object in case he didn´t dance with her again). The interesting thing was that at El Beso, I was the bump-er whereas at Canning and Ideal I am usually the bumpee ie my level of control and crowd management was FAR lower than those around me, so I tried to be smooth and predictable and away from other people, but it definitely gets in the way of enjoying the dance.
I met Alicia from New York who was in Wellington early last year. She brings tango tours here a couple of times a year, she was VERY pleased to see someone from Wellington and really enjoyed her trip last year.
The big thing that I notice here is the number of young people dancing. At some places it seems like half the floor is filled with 20-30s whereas in Wellington and Auckland it´s ´somewhat older´.
Milonguero style is seen as a fashion here by our hostess, who is also a tango teacher and started 15 years ago when tango was TINY and it was very difficult to even find a tango club, let alone a teacher! Amazing, eh? She says that there is a fashion for milonguero now, but the young people are learning VERY flashy dancing and some very good dancers are now moving back to figures again. She sees it as very cyclic, but she stresses that if you go to a teacher and he tells you that this is the true tango then you should smile sweetly but not believe him.
Geoff
021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
Subject: Quickie letter from BA
Created on 19 Apr 2004 14:50:08
Message #2074 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
I don´t have much to add to Liz´ letter, but here are some quickie notes:
If I could find work I´d move here tomorrow! The people are sooooooooo warm and friendly, and soooo helpful.
The taxi drivers are great! But scary!
It feels so much safer than London. The bad areas look bad but so long as you keep your bad-news radar on it´s been very safe so far for Beth and me,and also for Bob and Liz, who have been here a month, now.
Taxis are so common and so cheap ($NZ5 takes you a long long way) that it´s very easy to get around and the subway is almost as clean as Hamburg. The London tube is a toilet by comparison.
You can use your visa card to pull money from the ATMs, 24 hours, no worries. Travellers cheques are a pain.
Tango police? What tango police? I´ve been dancing at Gricel, Canning and Ideal and have seen so many experienced good, local dancers stepping back into the line of dance on the first step (sometimes taking TWO steps back) that I´ve been amazed. Dance floor discipline in Wellington seems quite advanced by comparison. Cutting across the line of dance on a diagonal is also common in the search for more space.
There are many good dancers here but there are many dancers who are more social dancers ie they don´t work particularly hard at it, but just do it for fun and in that way the standard is not dissimilar to Wellington, Christchurch and Auckland. So, in case you were wondering, don´t compare yourself to a non-existant model of ´how they do it in BA´, because they do it in a wide variety of ways in BA and many people here remind me of social dancers at home.
There´s a lot of close-hold dancing here but it´s as much because of the space restriction as anything else. Many people play with more flashy dancing as soon as the space opens up and there are lots of smiles on the dance floor whether it´s full or almost empty. As Liz says, if you want relaxed dancing then you either go early (10pm-12) or late(3am-4am). If you go between those times at places like Canning then you had better have your raspie repertoire handy (short little steps and checks, on the half-beat).
You really are shoulder to shoulder with other people but it allows a lot of things that the more open spaces do not, because the empty floors tempt you to stretch out your steps and fill the music with movement. The tight floors give rise to flirty little things like playing with each other´s feet, and giving long, lingering pauses to the woman for her to adorno adorno adorno!
Manners are soooooooooooooo important for tourists! For instance, I always offer my arm to ladies after I´ve caught their eye for a dance and been accepted, but then I do that at home as well. Here, it´s a revelation! The local ladies nearly squeal with delight (a Norwegian lady actually did!).I walk them onto the floor and then back to their seat, either holding their hand or offering them my arm, and then thank them after they sit. The nicest compliment that I´ve had in English is Ýou dance like a porteño but you have much nicer manners´. (Sorry, I just had to put that in!)
Whoops! This is longer than I intended! Sorry!
Wish you were here!!
Geoff
021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
Subject: Letter from Liz
Created on 19 Apr 2004 14:09:52
Message #2073 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Here´s a GREAT e-mail from Liz, who has fallen in with a bad crowd ie El Pulpo´s circle of friends and dancers. She was even blessed with a Muy Bien (Very good!) from a major milonguero last week! Óh dear, where will it all end?!!
Geoff
Hi, It's Liz here, from Tauranga.... I too am enjoying the pleasures of BA. I haven't bumped into Bob yet but I did see Phil and Michael from Christchurch. It is amazing to go to a Milonga or a shop and bump into an old tango friend from NZ. Michael and Bob have written of their exploits and perceptions of this wondrous place and it was pointed out to me that the Tango communities of NZ might like to get a female perspective.
Plenty has been said about the great tango which can be found here so I'd like to talk about a few other things about BA like shopping, getting chatted up, the way to get more dances if you are a girl (and I'm not talking about tight dresses although that does help), the food and various other things.
Shopping
The New Zealand dollar stretches a long way here and the clothes etc are very cheap as long as you are not in the tourist zone. The quality is great and shop assistants are very helpful, many even speak enough English to help the process along. There is a great variety of tango shoe shops and pricing. The most comfortable shoes I found were in a small dance boutique which I stumbled upon accidentally. I discovered that this was the store the show tango dancers bought their practice shoes - so they had to be comfortable.
I found an antique Tango dress store and bought an amazing coat, the fashion shops are lots of fun and very cheap.
Today I decided to buy jeans so I went to a jeans boutique. There were too many styles to choose from but I did my best to select a few pairs to try on. The assistant I had was a very suave handsome man (I bet he gets the girls to buy more than they need). He was very attentive bringing me jeans and tops and telling me how wonderful I looked. At one point he became quite elated and said "that looks perfecto, I love you".... well you'll be pleased to know that it didn't go to my head and I managed to leave having bought only one pair of jeans and 3 tops (which I probably didn't need). He even gave me instructions on the correct way to wear my underwear with each pair of jeans....I didn't realise that it was so important how your g-string sits but hey we live and learn.
Safety
It feels like a safe place until you accidentally venture into one of those rough areas and you realise that no taxis pass through here so your feet have to get you out of there as quickly as possible. A friend of mine accidentally found himself somewhere he shouldn't be and thought he was about to be accosted. He announced he was from Australia and asked where was a good place for a beer and suddenly he had new friends instead. They went for a drink and he was invited to join them the following evening, he agreed and left on very friendly terms. I meet up with him about an hour later and he was still a little shaken by the experience. He was not tempted to join his new friends the following night. It wasn't worth the risk of meeting someone who might not like Australians.
Americanos
The Argentine people do not seem to like the Americans very much although they enjoy getting access to their money. They seem much happier to hear that we are Australian or New Zealanders. They even know where NZ is - some have mentioned the All Blacks. These people are better educated than the Americans on world geography, world history, world politics and especially world sports.
Getting dances in BA
It is hard to adjust to how packed the dance floors are here so I prefer to go early to get more dance floor space before the masses arrive. I have found that it pays to go on your own to milongas, that way you get lots more dances and people talk to you more. Even when I go with a friend we have learnt to enter separately and sit alone.
One night I went on my own to La Catedral for the El Pulpo class followed by a milonga. I danced all night with an young Argentinian called Alejandro. It was great, the class was easy and heaps of fun. The floor was awful, all pitted and rough. El Pulpo started by dancing tango to Eminem rap music. It was great. The rest of the evening was very alternative but awesome. My friend was very sad when I left (on my own). I'm not sure it was because he was enjoying the dancing with me or because he was hopeful.
Getting unwanted dances
Not all my stories have such a happy ending though. One night at Club Gricel I was asked to dance by a very old Milonguero although he was a good dancer he tried to rub himself against me (if you know what I mean). I was polite and completed the dance. After a couple of tandas he returned and asked for another dance, I reluctantly agreed but made sure I used open hold this time. He tried to get to close hold throughout the dance but I was able to keep it safe. The dance ended and I thought he would leave me alone but he returned several tandas later and so I said no. He then proceeded to follow me around the room and hover near by staring at me sadly.
It was almost a week before I ventured back to Club Gricel and there he was waiting for me. I won't be going back there and it is a pity because it is a great place with lovely dancers.
The food
I thought being a vegetarian in an extreme meat eating country would be difficult but it was not. They are so helpful in the cafes and restaurants here and will prepare pretty much anything you desire. I've had some fabulous meals while my friends enjoy their enormous steaks. The portions are all over sized, great quality and cheap. That is, until you venture into the tourist areas. By the way, the gelato is off the planet good!
Argentine Women
The Argentine men are easy to work out. They are friendly and like to chat up girls, the Argentine women are a little harder to understand. I have been studying their attitude and mannerisms - especially the young women. It is a fascinating, sort of confident, aloof, sexuality. I guess I'll have to work on it if I want to achieve a true tango attitude.
The best class was really a practica.
I have only been to recommended classes so I guess I am luckier than Bob as I haven't been to any bad classes. They have all been great but I have learnt too much to fit in my head at once. I went to a 3 hr guided practica with a friend who lives in BA. It was a small unadvertised class. I was the only foreigner. It was effectively the best class I have been to because the teachers just went around each couple giving them new steps to work on and then moved onto the next couple. They would return to help with problems and leave you to practice while they assisted someone else. It was like each couple had a series of little private classes with practice time in between for each thing learned. It was better than usual classes because usually the teacher has very little time to pay much attention to specific students.
Tango TV
Tango TV is an experience. It is a cable TV channel which has tango classes, show tango, tango singers, interviews with tango celebrities and of course lots of advertisements for tango activities, shoes and other essentials. I have taped 8 videos full of Tango tv and will be happy to put on video evenings when I next visit Wn, Ch or Ak if anyone wants.
Toilets
In some milongas there are toilet attendants who sell a variety of items from dance dresses to breath mints. I'm not sure what else they do but they expect a gratuity. At one place they had even removed the toilet paper from the stall, instead they waited for you to ask for it and a small piece was provided....for a few coins that is. One of the guys was very impressed with the mens toilet at Salon Canning because it had a TV in it and there were some soccer fans in there enjoying a match. I guess there are days when it is hard to choose between tango and football.
Other stuff
I have been to 2 shows, one was a tango musical which I enjoyed but I recognised that the show tango did have a strong ballet side to it. It was an all dancing ,all singing tragedy...boy meets girl they fall in love, girl gets forced into a life of prostitution, boy fights to free her and when eventually you think they will get away and live happily ever after, the boy gets killed by the bad guys. As if the Argentineans don't have enough to be sad about. The brothel scenes were very colourful but one of the guys complained it was false advertising because all the posters had a beautiful naked tango dancer on them and in the show the girls did have a little bit of clothing left.
I also went to a tango dinner show which was very much real tango (show tango though). I had had a class with one of the dancers earlier that day so it was great to see her in action. I even recognised one of the other dancers from the video "Perfumes de Tango". It is amazing how many faces you see here from the videos.
I love it here, even the smoking isn't so bad because of the air-conditioning and high ceilings. It is very cheap to live here, I am seriously considering coming here to live for 3 to 6 months. But first I need to earn some more money and learn to speak Spanish better.
So that's it from me. I have one week left here and I'm off to make the most of it.
Besos a todo
Liz.
Subject: Bob''s letter from Buenos Aires
Created on 14 Apr 2004 19:51:59
Message #2060 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
A bit of a marginal call whether to send this one out, although he does mention BA a couple of times...and it's rather charming...
Geoff 021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:51:12 +1200
When I was a very small child, yea, yea, I know, more than just a couple ofweeks ago--When I was a small boy, pre school, I lived a lot of the time with my GrandParents. My Mothers parents. I spent a great deal of time with my Grand Father Charles Malcolm Ramsey MacArthur, Pipe Major Gordon Highlanders. To those that dont know, the Gordon Highlanders are a Scottish Army regiment, and a Pipe Major is the leader of the Pipe Band. Its hard to believe nowadays, but Grandad joined as a Drummer Boy at the age of 12!!! Anyway, my Grandmother would oftern tell grandad to take that wee bairn (small child) for walk around the Park lake. They lived only a few metres from the Park. Grandad and I would set off for the Park, only to take a shortcut across the corner of the Park down Rookery Lane to a small Pub at the end. Kids were not allowed in palaces like that so we sat at a small table in the rear garden and followed and went through a well practised routine. (This is all a long way from Buenos Aires, but hang in there, we will make the connection).
The Landlord would come out to take the order, which was always the same, but Grandad would accept no interuptions or suggestions, while the Landlord hopped from foot to foot, waiting for the order, Grandad, would tell him Dinna Fret yaself Mon ( don't worry man) He would then after his time of consideration order two wee dramms o single malt (2 shots of unblended whiskey) and a small bottle of Lemonade for the young Laddie (me). We would sit quietly untill the order was delivered. Grandad would pass the bottle of Lemonade and glass to me, unopened, while he burried his nose in his glass, slowly swirling the liquid around to pickup the character of the malt. He would conclude his testing always with, Aye, Aye, its just fine, and the Landlord was excused to carry on his work. Allways, the same routine, never varied. He would then check on my lack of progress oppening the bottle.
He would reach out his huge hand for the bottle, take it very casually, holding it in one hand, leaving about 30 or 40 mm of bottle top clear and with his thumb only, flick the top off as it had been sitting just on top. The top would spin in an arc in the air, comming down onto the table top. Always. As he performed this trick, ( I'm sure he had practised this on a few thousand bottles) he would never take his eyes off me, while I sat in wonder and admiration, he loved it. He would give me his Grandad smile, and add You just have to know you can do it. He would then pass the bottle back to me. This was a much practised ceremony, I would pour the Lemonade into the glass, check that the way was clear, and give Grandad a very slight nod. He would reach across, take my glass and add, just a wee tot of his whiskey to my Lemonade. Wherupon he would always say:- that'l take away the nasty taste of the Lemonade away, and cure what ails ya. (and cure your sicknesses).
We are getting there! At Auckland Airport I had bought a decent bottle of Whiskey for use in BsAs, and untill yesterday it had remained unopend. In the fridge where I live I also had a large unopened bottle of Lemonade,) slow down your getting a head of me) So last night I threw out all conventional medicines and took Grandads advice. Also to add to the occaision, I had on my Laptop the national song of Scotland. O Flower of Scotland. So on the balcony facing onto Bulnes last night I stood glass raised to Grandad, with the massed Pipes and Drums of The Black Watch, I sang to Buenos Aires (very loud) O Flower O Scotland, when will we see, Your like again? That fought and died for, your wee bit hill and glen (small piece of hilland valley That stood against him, proud Edwards army (English) And sent him homeward, to think again.
Do I feel any better for this form of alternative medicine? You had better believe it!!
Thanks Grandad Robert, (much better thanks).
Subject: FW: [tangoauckland] On the Street Where I Live
Created on 03 Apr 2004 05:31:21
Message #2045 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
An amusing little story from Bob Ramsey Turner in BA. We'll be joining himat the same address shortly...
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Subject: [tangoauckland] On the Street Where I Live
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:45:13 +1200
Today I went for a 3 hour walk along one of the main drags here in BsAs, Avenida Corrientes. One way, and 6 lanes wide. It runs through the heart of the city down to the huge Obilisco down on Avenida Nueve De Julio (9th ofJuly). The Argentine Independance day. But more about Corrientes a little later in this story. Today I was going to tell you about the first real Tango Orchestra I saw and listened to last night, but that also will have to wait or I'll be here allnight. On my return from my walk I called in a local Carniceria (Butcher), by the way all the butchers here devote about 10% of their space to meat and the balance to fruit and Veg. I was buying stuff for my lunch it being about 1pm. They were closing up for the Siesta, to about 2-30.
I went to my home at the Junction of Humuhuaka y Bulnes, made an omlete for lunch, then joined the rest of the area in Siesta. I woke about 2 hours later, and started to laugh at the phenomena that wa soccuring down the block at the junction with Buknes y Corrientes. At this junction there is a significant dip in the road. All passing vehicles with any speed, which would be 100%, get a free suspension check. Fully extending the shock absorbers and springs, then fully compressing themon the other side of the dip. It got a little more interesting when a truck did the same thing with any sort of load that wasn't securely tied down, there were lots of those. As the truck passed over the dip, the load suddenly found it was without support and started to decend in search of the the truck tray, only to findit comming back up to the load quickly as it came up the other side of the dip.
Well you may well think not such a big thing, and you would be right, however--Today someone had parked a car by the same intersection with a sensitive alarm system. The shock wave vibrations from the truck load finding thetruck again, set off the car alarm system every time a truck with a loose load went by. Again you may well think not such a big thing, and you would be right, however--The Wow Wow Wow HeHaw HeHaw of the alarm started one of the local dogs off baying in sympathy, as the wolves for thousands of years have bayed at the moon. Again you may well think-- but wait-- if one dog starts this baying any dog around will join in, and did they ever. There are thousands of dogs here, I thought the Poms and Kiwis were mad about their dogs but the Argentines leave them for dead.
So about every 2 or 3 minutes a truck would set off the alarm which wouldset off dog #1 who would set off 20 or 30 more. By the time I had been for a shower and went out on my verandah on Bulnes the alarm had about flattened the battery of the car, it was down to a very minor toot, toot, the dogs had given up on it and they too finally joined the Siester. And it was time for my one hours Tango walk and turning practice before Icame to tell you about Bs As. Not alot of Tango in this little cameo of BsAs, but this place isn't just about tango.
Foot note:
If you've got down to here without deleting it you have done well. I would like a little help from someone on this Auckland tango List, to tell me which stories have got through via the List. I have had some of them bounce back.
Kind RegardsRobert Ramsey-Turner
Subject: FW: [tango_christchurch] Letter from Buenos Aires
Created on 03 Apr 2004 05:23:39
Message #2044 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Some of you will know Michael, Angus and Phil from Chch. They are in BA now, and this is something that michael sent to tango christchurch.
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
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Subject: [tango_christchurch] Letter from Buenos Aires
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:42:03 +1200
Hello to all you Christchurch Tango dancers.
Several years ago I heard a Astor Piazolla Tango on the radio and fell in love with Tango music. A couple of years ago I saw Emma dancing at my first Tango lesson and fell in love with the dance. Now my final love affair is with Buenos Aires where Tango originated. Like all love affairs you take the good with the bad. I'm a simple New Zealand country boy and as a rule I hate cities. BA is a noisy (very noisy), dirty, ugly, crowded place just like any big city of the world. However, for all that I love BA. The quiet green parks of Palermo, the mix of bohemia and antique shops with neglected tenements of San Telmo, the bustle of the Forida shopping malls, the bird life of the Ecolgicia Reservia Constantina Sur, upmarket deserted waterside, the awesome Teatre Colon, sitting in a cafe watching the world go by and of course Tango.
Its tempting to come here with the idea of learning all there is to know about Tango. But the reality is that if you know the rudiments of Tango well it is the experience of dancing in the milongas that counts. Its nice to do a few lessons to learn from those who know how to do it best but too many lessons just dulls the mind and takes it out of you. The atmosphere and spectacle of the old salons and old milongeuros.
Every milonga is different:
Dandi - this small club in San Telmo is typical of the SanTelmo tango scene. Slightly contrived and renovated to cash in on the Tango revival it none the less has character and style and is a lovely place to dance and watch others dance.
Confiteria Ideal - the most well known of dance salons the Ideal was made famous by Sally Potters film 'The TangoLesson'. Its a beautiful and ornate confiteria but is poorly maintained with paint peeling off the walls. Its easy tod ance here at the matinee milongas and you will find many foreigners here.
Porteño y Balarin - a more modern club with 2 dance floors, one for the oldies and one for the rest. A great place to dance, with good mix of music and people.
Niño Bien - a traditional ornate dance Salon where old milongeuros outnumber the women and foreigners like myself spend most of the evening trying to just get a dance.
Veijo Corero - a converted post office this salon is outwest of the city were ordinary folk come to dance and cut loose. They play a lot of salsa and other dance music. You don't see any flash dancing here, just a bunch of people who have a lot of fun.
La Caterdral - a really cool place. Its an old run down warehouse that has been taken over by a bunch of Tango Bohemians who maintain a kind of alternative Tango scene that rebels against the stuffy traditions of old school tango. Between tandas they often have impromptu skits and acts, including a modern dance group and some actors with tango dummies parodying tango. What alaugh. Unfortunately the dancing was crap. It seems the anarchy of bohemia doesn't bode well on the dance floor and the dance floor is very uneven (most dance in sandshoes).
Tango is also about music and I went an listened to live music at the Club de Vino. The in house trio - 'The Nestor Marconi Trio' played first and Nestor Marconi on the bandoneon was fantastic. They placed mainly Piazolla. The guests of the night was 'Quinteto Real' who are a very famous long running orchestra. They were also fantastic and played some more traditional Tangos. It was just so nice to sit and listen to real live Tango played the way it should be. The Club is specially set up for live Tango shows. They also had a brief Tango dance demonstration. Interestingly the couple dancing were from the Estampus Portenos that played in Chch last year.
I had a reminder that the Tango world really is a small world. I wandered into a Tango shoe store to find Alberto, Natalia and Liz (from Tauranga) trying n shoes. They are here with group doing BA. It was really cool to see them.
Tango on.
Chau, Michael
Subject: FW: Cabeceo Eye Contact
Created on 28 Mar 2004 20:17:32
Message #2030 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
This is from Bob Ramsey-Turner of Auckland. He's been in Buenos Aires for aweek, now.
Geoff021 300 365
www.tango.gen.nz
From: Crown Associates Ltd
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Subject: Cabeceo Eye Contact
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:49:10 +1200
From BsAs, at last my back is getting noticably better, I´m seeing a physio every day for massage and treatment, at one stage I though I wasn´t going to improve, but Saturday afternoon I went to my first lesson, $15 Pesos, about $7-50NZ. Temerature must have been close to 30 and humidity about 110%, I´ve never been so wet outside a shower. I could feel sweat running through my hair and down my back, but every one was in the same situation, tutors were top notch in both English and Spanish. Sadly I don´t think I learnt much. What I have learnt, with all the watching I,ve done while I´ve been comming to terms with Cabeceo, is, I now know what I want to learn.
In NZ we are spoilt with the amount of room we have to dance in. Most of the figures and turns we do, take at least 2 often 3 times the amount of space you will get here. I think Rick MacGarrey once talked of Dancing on a Plate or Dancing on aTile. Probably a good practice would be to draw a 1 metre sqaure on the floor and start dancing inside it, do that well on you´ve cracked it. To get what I want I think I will have to resort to private lessons, rather than group stuff.
The Cabeceo.
This is the Eye contact way of asking and accepting an invitation todance.
House rules:
1 You cannot go face to face and ask someone to dance.
2 Ladies may not move from their seats (go walk about) to achieve thecontact. What happens is ,having watched the dancers, you target the people you would like to partner. When the music starts, scan over the targets, dwelling for a while on each one, if they are facing in your general direction, a little body movement from you to attract the eye, then if the eyes meet, perhaps a raised eyebrow, a slight incline of the head to the floor, If a smile is the return, you´ve cracked it. One thing I figured out is that the guys have and added benefit, they can rove around the seated area looking for contact. I only noticed this when I went around to the far side of Salon Canning tos ay goodbye to Ricardo of Wellington. I had already changed my shoes, not able to dance but I noticed, that on that one trip round half the seated area, I had had 5 solid eye contacts, it was only later I realised the value of the trick, sorry ladies but its not on for you to do it.
Because I have this back problem, I spent the entire time at Salon Canning last night 11 pm to 3-30 am standing, because I have problems straightening out my back when I stand after a few minutes sitting. The fact that I was standing raised my profile, I was more visible. Things are easier if you are in a group the face to face question is obvious. Another thing that one must factor in is, if you are not seen dancing no one knows what you can do, so you don't get asked. I noted ladies who were not well experienced dancers getting lots of dances, but for what ever reason, if a person sat without dancing, then no one asked. The USA lady staying at the same place as I, had been here 6 weeks befores he had a dance at a milonga! and that was with me. So it aint easy. But it is worth the effort. Last night I danced 8 tandas with ladies from Paris, London, Mexico and your right BsAs. My Milonga brought more smiles than my Tango. The moment the Milonga music started the lady I had the first Milonga with was giving me eye. If I dont end now I will get carried out on a stretcher.
Catch you all later
Subject: Cabecear- from Geoff and Enrique
Created on 28 May 2004 01:00:51
Message #2154 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Apologies to people who are not interested in this topic. Please delete, in that case. I've been asked to send out an e-mail that I wrote, presenting my misgivings, for an offline conversation on this topic. I've included Enrique's response. Whether you agree or not with either view, they're both sent with the best of intentions, so play nice when you see us!.
Geoff
Here's my e-mail to the moderators, Peter and Nancy:
My only reservations are:
1/ Lila, our hostess in BA, said that cabecear is used at a distance and between people who aren't friendly. Friends ask each other to dance all the time, cabecear is just the formal aspect and it's not a rule.
2/ It works in BA because the milongas are brightly lit and you can see people's eyes, plus you are talking about a big crowd of people separated by metres and metres of floorspace. If a man/woman turns you down thenthere's always another, metres away, and who hasn't seen you be refused. Here we're separated by inches and I think it's a bit silly.
3/ Cabecear is less about 'empowering the woman', it's more about protecting the man from the humiliation of being turned down.
4/ It was very noticeable that it was more difficult to say hello to people because they thought that you might be trying to cabecear them, when in fact you just wanted to be nice and 'buy the world a Coke'. It might reduce the social interaction a bit and the bigger BA milongas are emotionally cold in many ways. It's just a dance has a very clear meaning for many of the dancers there, and a lot of dances look like they were more like 'transactions' after they're over. Many people walk away from each other after dances, even between very good dancers, like it meant nothing to them.
5/ It makes it very easy for people who aren't good dancers to sit out for ages, not dancing at all and not getting a chance to improve. From that point of view I see it as having potential to damage the scene, but 'how they do it in BA' has a mystique in Wellington and I think it's better to send this out and allow people to read it and make the call themselves.
Here is Enrique's response:
Peter : can you please forward this to Gordon and Geoff ? And also, if their answers went to the tango salsa group, forward this to the group as well. I believe that both of the answers are ok.
Also, Geoff is right when he says about cabecear being something done to strangers, or from the distance. Inbs as, friends do ask verbally to dance. The problem is: in buenos aires, women have no problem saying no. Here, for some reason, they feel uncomfortable saying no. So, if it makes it more comfortable for them to say no by looking away than by saying no personally, I believe we could give it a try. I don't know why that happens, all I know is that it happens, and we have a chance to help some ladies feel better. I guess it is like when someone likes a lady, and she doesn't like you back, but you are such a nice person ....They really wish they didn't need to tell you they see you as a friend. They would be more comfortable if you pick this up from the hints,and stop trying to ask them out.
What happens here is that some men look from the distance. The ladies lookaway. Next, the man ignores the wish of the lady and goes on to sit at the same table that she is, talk to her, and end up asking her to dance anyway. This is the situation we thought we might change. Perhaps ladies talk different to me because I am an outsider. But you would be surprised at the number of ladies who told me that they dance with certain men just to be polite, not because they want (or like) to.
As for Gordon and the severe penalty I impose. It is not so much a penalty, but until they get comfortable saying no, it is an excuse for anyone who doesn't want to dance and is afraid to be considered rude. This way, people only get offended at me (nothing new there). I am more than happy to pay that price, if it will mean that the people on the list will start enjoying the milongas more. We discussed this in class with our students, and they all agreed to it.
So please, if you can respect their efforts, try to help them. One last word : I did not mean to say everyone should do this. You are absolutely free to do as you like. All I asked for is, when you want to dance with someone on the list, try to do the eye contact first. If you don't want to, it's ok. But there is a chance that you will be dancing with someone who didn't want to dance withyou. I know we are all grown ups, and that nobody should get offended by being refused, and that no one should be afraid of saying no. But that is not the way things are in Wellington right now. Last Sunday at Latinos I was talking to a woman who told me that she got to the point were no hints were good enough for one of the top dancers and teachers to stop asking her to dance. She had to start getting up and leaving the room for him to understand that she didn't want to dance. Once again thanks to those of you who took the time to read this.
Enrique
Subject: The Eyes have it!
Created on 27 May 2004 07:14:29
Message #2148 of 3453
Posted By Gordon Cessford
Hi there,
Really nice writing style Enrique. I really liked reading the posting, though I have some concern about the topic itself. I don't have a particular problem with the 'eye-thing' as a form of personal behaviour and preference in BA - when in Rome, do as the Romans do etc....And its fine among those that want to do that among themselves in other places, but I'm not so sure I'm keen on the heavy enforcement concept - that really affects everyone else....TO QUOTE: The way our regular students and us will try to enforce it is if any of our male students asks a lady to dance verbally he will not come to our next set of lessons. If any of our female students says yes to a man whoa sks them verbally, they will not come to our next set of lessons. Gotta say that is a bit extreme - and by default it is attempting to impose a fairly specialised dancing protocol among a wider array of folks - largely through guilt.
If we want to dance with those people, we have to play it that way, otherwise they go into exile and we end up feeling like dastardly cads!! That's pretty coercive eh! Who's going to enforce it? Couldn't you just have a $2 fine jar or something similar - like some places have fors wearing? A better way to deal with it is to get the people in your classest o simply apply that protocol among themselves with some form of less extreme 'encouragement', and leave the rest of us out of that system. You may have noticed that the 'eye-thing' happens a lot anyway in Wellington - I use it myself a lot of the time as its practical and easy across a crowded room - but its not the only way. I really don't see the need to apply it as some sort of single exclusive code, though it has many practical values -which is why I use it a lot of the time myself.
Actually I think the idea is a really good practise exercise for going to BA, but I'm not so sure that the cultural background to it in Argentina matches the cultural background of people here. From my own personal perspective I gotta say it doesn't always fit very well with my outgoing personality and social preferences. And I'm not too sure how it fits in with the open friendly easy-going and inclusive 'kiwi' dance culture which has been complimented on by many visitors to Wellington. Personally, I am grownup enough to take a simple 'No' for answer without going into 'ego-crash'. Most people say 'no' one way or another many times in a day, so I don't seewhy saying so at a dance is any different. Plenty of people have said no tome at various dances at one time or another - that's cool. On the other hand if someone asks me to dance, my own personal ethic is to accept and enjoy unless I have a pretty good reason - I'm stuffed, I need a drink, I've got way to hot and drippy, or I've just had my leg bitten off by a crocodile (thats about the only thing that would stop Geoff!!).
Normally I'll accept though. If the partner is different-in-dance from what I am normally comfortable with, then I adjust. I've discovered over the years that it's a really good way to grow your dance and sometimes turns out to be a real revelation. Obviously if someone is personally offensive in behaviour then I would get out of that situation. It happened once years ago with a lady on a salsa night who accosted me but turned out to be quite drunk and obnoxious -it was not very nice (don't worry - its nobody I'd ever seen before or since...).
That said, I know there are bound to be some partners that might not enjoy my normal style at all, or on a particular night, or when the milonga is particularly crazy - which is completely cool with me. But hey - I can always adapt my style to suit that partner as required.....and if after that we still haven't 'connected' - well so be it...As far as I am concerned, anyone can come up and ask me to dance if they want to - and I will continue to encourage others to do that if they want to- so we don't get lots of unnecessary awkwardness and poor unfamiliar peoples tuck at a table as wall-flowers, which is a real nightmare for beginners or visiting dancers. We gotta look after them too!
I remember getting 'the eye'a lot when I was in BA in 2000 - but when I first got there I knew nothing about it - Geez I missed lots of dances for a while!! All in all I just like things to be simple and real - no games and lots of smiles. I am quite comfortable to engage in this to help out, but it will not be exclusively. For what it is worth, that's my opinion - I'd be interested if anyone else has one.....
Cheers Gordon
PS: Enrique - I definitely understand that you're just trying to help people overcome various awkwardness - so good on you for coming up with something positive to do about it. Maybe discuss it with your class and come up with a less serious means of encouraging/enforcing it, and allow for some space for other ways as well.
Subject: Message to the Wellington tango dancers - from Enrique
Created on 27 May 2004 03:57:52
Message #2146 of 3453
Posted By Peter Te Papa
View discussion(2 messages)
Hi.
For those of you who don't know me, I am a tango dancer who has been living and teaching tango (ocasionally) in Wellington for the last 3 years.
This message is related to a subject that has come up enough times for a group of dancers to try to do something about it.
The subject is: What should a lady do if she really doesn't want to dance with a particular person in a given night? They really feel like saying no, but are afraid to be considered rude. So, they end up dancing without enjoying it. What I would like to say is: Women have a right to say no. It should not be considered rude. More rude is men taking advantage of the etiquette to force women to dance with them. Tango is a very intimate dance. Very few people enjoy dancing with everybody.
Even the best couples, married, in love forever, will have some days when they don't feel like dancing tango with each other. The fact that a lady doesn't want to dance with a man ONLY MEANS THAT IN THAT PARTICULAR DAY/MOMENT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DANCE WITH HIM. It does not mean that the man is a bad dancer. Or a bad person. Or too ugly. Or too old. Or too short. There are many variables in tango dancing. Lots of things have to happen for two people to actually enjoy tango argentino.
The same way people can have two different opinions about politics, friendship, etc; they can feel the music differently. Find different steps enjoyable. Some might like to dance close. Others with a bit more distance. Some women consider me a good dancer and like to dance with me. Others just can't stand the way I dance, and hate dancing with me. It is bound to happen.
The perfect male dancer who gets every woman to enjoy dancing with him does not exist. Right now ladies who don't want to dance with a man here have two choices: a) Say no and be considered rude. b) Say yes, and think how many dances must she dance till she can say thanks and stop. It is obvious that both options are uncomfortable for the ladies. A group of students attending the lessons I teach with Amy have decided to try one of my sugestions (at least for some time): When a man wants to ask a lady to dance, he has to establish eye contact. If the lady holds the contact, he will cabecear (don't know the translation, it is a barely perceptible inclination of the head towards the dance floor). If the lady smiles, they will dance. If the lady looks away, the man should look for some other woman to dance with (there are usually more women than men). It's a very small change.
By avoiding going all the way over to where the lady is sitting, and asking them to dance in front of everyone (what will make it really embarrasing for her to say no), we discretly ask from a distance. You can do that as you like. What I do is: when I get to a dance, I stay away from where the ladies are, giving them plenty of space. This way, if a lady doesn't want to dance with me she just has to avoid looking in my direction. Even if our eyes meet, she can still look away (since we are really apart, it is perfectly normal to look on). The most important thing about this is that I know I will not ask a lady who doesn't want to dance with me. We might not get to dance with whom we want to, but we have to accept that. At least I, personally, don't like to dance with a woman who said yes to be polite.
This small change will make many ladies feel much more at ease in the milongas. It costs nothing. And everyone gets practice for when they go to Buenos Aires. One more thing for you guys: women are very smart. And subtle. We don't need to stare at them for 8 hours because they might not have noticed I was looking at them the first 7 hours and 59 minutes. And, if they look away, they mean it. It's not like I know she looked away the last 17 times I looked at her, but that's just because she didn't realize I wanted to dance with her. It would be great to respect the ladies right to say no.
Dancing with women is not a right that we have. It's a privilege that they grant us. Of course, it is your choice to do it, or to keep things the way they've been so far. The way our regular students and us will try to enforce it is: if any of our male students asks a lady to dance verbally he will not come to our next set of lessons. If any of our female students says yes to a man who asks them verbally, they will not come to our next set of lessons. Since our students seem to enjoy our lessons, they will be trying very hard to work via eye contact. So, guys, the girls who will say no unless you ask them by stablishing eye contact and indicating the dance floor are: Tessa, Belinda, Rabiya, Jane. ( from Jane and Ian ), Lorraine, Liuba (Christine),Sarah.
Subject: Leaving NZ
Created on 23 Jun 2004 07:38:23
Message #2192 of 3454
Posted By Nancy NicholsAcevedo
Hi everyone;
Just thought I'd let you all know that I will be leaving NZ at the end of September this year.
I plan to return to Boston. I have really been missing my family the last year or so, and want to connect in with my parents and brothers and their families, while my parents are still available and lively. A number of things have worked together to bring me to this decision - one of them being the closing of my tango event activities. This was really a deep personal grief. However, it is more likely that I will get to BA when I am living in the US. And I may see some of you there over time.
It's three months out now, but thought it was worth putting the word out so that people know. I don't know how often I will get either to tango or salsa dances. I do have very significant budget constraints. I'll do what I can, and see you when I do.
Happy dancing
Nancy
Nancy Nichols-Acevedo
NaNA & Co
PO Box 27 520 Marion Square
Wellington
04 475 3011
mobile 021 44 NaNA [6262]
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Subject: Mark''s BA Tango Festival Stories!!
Created on 20 Oct 2004 08:58:12
Message #2382 of 3454
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Don´t cry for me, I´m in Argentina.
A bit of news and a few impressions from Mecca for the tango-starved or merely curious back home.
Hola y Buenos Dias from sunny, smoggy Buenos Aires. Ten of my 29 days are gone, suddenly, and the tango has indeed been having it´s way with me. Day
one was 41 hours long (the plane trip across the dateline does that) including 6 hours in a milonga, and it´s been 8 to 10 hours dancing a day and 5 to 6 hours sleep ever since.
I´ve been following Neville Waisbrod´s excellent guide for new tanguerros in BsAs, and it´s 100% excellent. I made a couple of copies for folk at the tango festival, hope that´s OK Neville. With a sexy cover on it the guide, Neville, it would be a commercial proposition!
The World Tango Festival is the mixed bag of styles and methods expected. One of the avanzados/maestros (advanced and teachers) classes I did with Gachi Fernandez & Sergio Cortazzo consisted of a rotating whirl of a routine with big sacadas, ganchos on the fly and 2 jumps. Another with Gloria & Eduardo Arquimbau was on tangos antiguos and they just started from the very beginning and taught basic steps. Beautifully, clearly and with great humour though. I learned as much about how to teach tango as about tangos antiguos.
Apart from that I have just been to the opening show, and avoided the rest of the activities studiously. Mostly, my enthusiasm for dancing with a very mixed ability group from all over the world when I could be somewhere else dancing with las chicas Argentinas (well dancing with some and being politely ignored by others!) is somehow disappeared. It´s been good to take class with some of the big names in tango but I think there comes a time when the organization (and the English translations!) of big BsAs tango festivals is no longer an attraction; ie I personally have hit the wall with them. The Australian and NZ festivals are actually better for me because of the concentration of all the keen and advanced people from one country, I think they are important events for tango in our countries, whereas in Argentina the tango scene here doesn´t need these festivals, it is a great way to bring in some dolares for the top teachers and the tango industry here though.
Anyway, enough politix. Buenos Aires is still it´s crazy battered elegant self. You still get as much diesel and cigarette smoke in a day as you get in 6 months in NZ, mixed with organic smells of all description from the delightful to the disgusting. The air is just flavoured with stuff here, seldom does it smell clean! Engineer workshops are crowded in with hairdressers and the obligatory café on every corner, zoning is contrary to latino thinking. There´s a rich end of town and a poor end, that´s all.
Met some tanguerros from Ramos Mejia (way out in the burbs about 15 km the centre). They can´t believe anyone would pay $400 US a month for an apartment, like me (it´s $20 NZ per day, about what it costs for a backpackers in NZ). They are more like $100 out there. On the other hand I could stay at ;Dandi Royal (a tango guest house of the magnificent variety) 4 blocks down my dirty smelly character ridden street for $400 US a night.
You get some pretty big contrasts around here, there has been time for the rich to get really rich and the poor to get really poor. Oops, more politics. This is more or less about dancing after all!
The tango industry seems bigger and better organized than when I was here in 2001. There´s plenty of tango guest houses now (mostly a lot cheaper than Dandi), and more and better tango shops. There are general shops now where you can get shoes, discs, dresses and suits, videos and posters, tango ties and tieclips, pottery figurines, keyrings, tango kitchen sinks all in the same place.
Tango shoes are quite flashy now. There´s printed leather, different combinations of colours (ie red on the front, green on the heel), metallic heels etc etc. Hardly anyone who is anyone is wearing plain black, and closed toes are definitely for someone´s mother. Sorry ladies, but that´s what I see with my eyes.
The young women here are still wearing their jeans sprayed on but hardly a shred of underwear is sticking out over the top; if the midriff is on display it´ worth showing and you never ever ever see even a hint of butt crack like you get in NZ. Sexy is optional here but tasteful is mandatory. Even in the poor parts of town I feel underdressed in a t-shirt. The waiters (all professional, no students scraping a penny together here) typically wear waistcoat and bowtie. They have the air of a good old-fashioned butler, and even in the cheapest place you are served at your table. To approach the counter would be most unusual here.
Some highlights :
1) Tango show at Salon Canning. 3 twenty something couples in Gothic. They started with traditional done flash, worked their individual way through Piazzolla to a synchronized number to Narcotango. This was some of the most avante-garde show tango I´ve seen, and I´ve seen some. The women were off the ground about half the time, the level was astronomical. All for the 5 peso (NZ $2.50) price of admission, and we got a top knotch 5 hour milonga
as well!
2) For contrast, $75 NZ tango show at Centro Astor Piazzolla. Just one of those things you ;gotta do as a tango tourist. I went with Pedro and Laura (teachers from Perth), Pedro´s Mum and their bunch of Perthian women, who are good humour. Art food, all the wine you can drink, full hardworking tango orchestra, 2 great singers and 3 fabulous dance couples in an elegant theatre with balconies and magnificent stairs, etc etc. A dangerous mix! The show was stolen by Roberto Reis and partner. He in full suit, she in latex catsuit and 4 inch heels for their most amazing rendition of Libertango. Reminds one of an impressionist painting mixed with tango and a combat scene from starwars.
3) Children in the little park next to my apartamento. Someone has given these little darlings a big bass drum, a conga and some cymbals. Me trying to sleep after being out all night for 4 nights in a row, them laying down a groove to put the Wellington Batucada to shame. Eventually I gave up and got up. They went on for four hours!
4) Sunday night milonga at club CocoLoco in Ramos Mejia with my new found friend Eduardo the tango teacher from out back and his gang. I suspect I´m the only foreigner they´ve had there. Mostly they didn´t know NZ existed, let alone that there could be tango there. Great mix of young and old, this one is a real community event. At closing time I had to kiss all the stubbly old guys as well as the ladies. Gotta take the rough with the smooth in this town!
5) Gustavo Naviera and Giselle Anne´s regular class para avanzados in la Manufactura Papelera, a reworked industrial building in the South end of grimy old San Telmo, with it´s barred windows and garage door covered shopfronts splattered with grafitti and it´s cobbled streets with dirty, narrow broken old pavements. You go in off this mean street into a cool gallery with weird art. Downstairs the GG´s teach extreme tango to extreme students. Many of these students teach tango here, 2 of them have taught at Cosmotango. Bring your own partner and don´t expect the GG´s to slow down or help you with basic stuff. A colgada is considered as just a regular move here. Somehow the entrada is 15 pesos. $7.50 NZ for the most advanced class I´ve seen, let alone done, with the best in the world. It doesn´t seem right somehow. Never mind, a lady I met in the milongas who wouldn´t dance with me because I look like an Americano and she doesn´t know me and I might make her look bad was there. Maybe I´ll merit a quick dance next week, who can know.
OK, gotta go or I´ll be late for class. Hasta pronto (see you all too soon)
from Mecca Marcos en Buenos Aires.
Subject: Buenos Aires rocks (''n'' rolls)
Created on 18 Dec 2004 12:37:11
Message #2471 of 3454
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
This is from Robert and Antoinette of Chch who have relocated to Buenos Aires for 6 months!
Geoff
From: Antonieta y Roberto This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
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To: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Subject: [tango_christchurch] Buenos Aires rocks ('n' rolls)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:56:23 +1300
Hola a todos!
It's a hot, sunny day in Buenos Aires, we're just back from a matinee milonga and our heads are busy with a new perspective on jiros learned in the class beforehand. We have all these lovely emails from Christchurch folk wondering how it's going and it's about time we responded.
The truth is we didn't hit the dance floors running (or dancing even), and we've spent more time than expected feeling bamboozled in this tango jungle.
It all sounded so straightforward! You turn up, buy a new pair of shoes (or two), spend a week going to every milonga running, find the teacher you like best, start classes, make lots of friends and spend as many as possible blissful days in Mecca learning to be beautiful tango dancers, naturally miraculously becoming fluent Spanish speakers along the way. We have six months here; we're not even in a hurry.
Ironically, we reckon that might have been our surprise set-back: when you turn up in BA with two or three weeks to pack in as much tango experiences you can you're pretty focused. We've turned up and set up home in a central city working-class neighbourhood where tall blond men are an anomaly and locals aren't accustomed to speaking slowly for gringo comprehension. After a week we were both back at work full time (from home for our NZ employers) so we'd had just enough time to work out our neighbourhood and getting around town, to develop a full comprehension of the immense gaps in our knowledge of Spanish and experience some of the culture shock that comes from living in a city rather than being a visitor to it. What we didn't come across anywhere for two whole weeks was the essential, can't-live-without-them, magazines El Tangauta and BA Tango, which list the majority of classes and milongas running (along with other essentials like local beauticians and masseuses...). Therefore, having started out thinking No pressure, we were suddenly weeks into living in BA and feeling like we didn't have a clue where or how to dance tango. That's not how it was supposed to go! But then, we came here to be challenged...
Our first Saturday night out dancing we had no idea which one of the 15 milongas on at various times over the afternoon, evening and through till 5am was the best to go to. With nothing to guide us we picked Lo de Celia because we'd heard good things about it. We've heard lots of milonga names over the last three years and knew we must go to Confiteria Ideal, Salon Canning, Lo de Celia, Gricel... etc. What we hadn't realised was that each of these venues has milongas held by different people on different nights, and even different people on the same night. Salon Canning on a Thursday night isn't as good as Salon Canning on, say, Friday early evening.
As we learned within seconds of walking in, Lo de Celia might well be good on various nights of the week, but Saturday night at 11.30 when you're two 30-odd-year-old foreigners and one non-tango tourist (we had a friend from NZ with us) is not the best choice... every person in the room was 20 to 30 years our senior, the music was full of static and played at a deafening level, everyone but us had reserved a table. Our Wellington friend out to see tango for the first time may well have been put off for life. He likened it to a bingo hall and made bad jokes about bingo-tango, and he was visibly bemused by the extraordinary display of social etiquette: short-skirted women each sitting alone at a small square table upon which sat:
* a purse
* cigarettes
* ashtray
* a bottle of water
* a glass of champagne
* and often a fan.
Elsewhere were men, sitting alone or in groups, cigarettes at hand. The floor is empty when the music begins. A man stands up, walks slowly across the floor, and, miraculously, a woman has arrived seemingly by prior arrangement (our friend hadn't seen the cabezado the eye contact and nod to ask and accept the dance it's very subtle!). This happened over and over until the floor was full of dancers, all of them moving in time to the music and dancing beautifully simple steps. It was fascinating: anyone who went to Pecky, Anibal, and Martin's classes when they were in Christchurch might recall the 'milonguero' rhythm that Pecky taught this is the way everyone in the room was dancing and it was beautiful to watch. However, we felt like the sore thumbs sticking out! So we beat a hasty retreat and tried another milonga, which fortunately is an easy thing to do in a city where there are milongas going at 10 to 15 different venues at almost any time between 3pm and 6am.
We've been lucky enough to have Joaquin Amenabar (the Bandoneon player whose musicality workshops in Christchurch impressed so many of us) inviting us often to milongas or out to lunch to talk about both Buenos Aires and tango (naturally mostly tango!). He's full of handy tips about how to get dances - and how to refuse:-) - which milongas/teachers to go to/avoid and little tidbits about the music that's playing. He complains, though, that many DJs still haven't learnt not to play more than three milongas in a row - it's true that the floor thins out a lot when milonga comes on, which we've always associated with NZ dancers being fearful of the snappy rhythm that's so hard to get the hang of. Joaquin reckons that here it's because people get bored of the 'simple' rhythm! We've seen some amazing dancing, and plenty of beginners on the floor - who are not all gringo tourists (and some of the amazing dancers are gringos too). The range of levels and styles is VERY WIDE and we don't feel uncomfortable or out of place at the majority of milongas. Across different milongas you'll see men back-stepping (into you if you're not careful), people trying out their big sweepy moves on crowded dancefloors, people dancing extraordinary moves seemingly on one spot and miraculously avoiding contact with their fellow dancers on the floor, in some places - Salon Canning on a Sunday night for example - there's a 'force-field' of space around each couple which nobody ever crosses, so the floor flows beautifully and there's always enough room, even when there's not much room.
Outfits vary a lot too! From cargo pants, sneakers, and sandals to flash suits, skimpy sparkly little dresses and dauntingly high, twig-thin heels. There seems to be a thing at the moment for see-through white pants and really dark underwear (go figure) which is highly distracting. It sounds like Carol is keen to take responsibility for starting this particular trend in Christchurch; see her for details.
One of the most fabulous things about Buenos Aires tango is the plethora of live performances and bands to see and dance to. We've seen Joaquin's orchestra a couple of times, we're off to Color tango tonight, we saw Narcotango the other night, next week we're looking forward to Juanjo Dominguez on Thursday and Adriana Valera on Wednesday (at Torquato Tasso, Gloria thanks for the advice!). There are numerous tango dancers performing every night of the week: last night we were delighted to catch Los Hermanos Marcanas, two brothers who do a technically superb and hilarious show together. Last week we saw Carlos Gavito, who seems to be highly revered by his students: many of them cried as he danced (he's been very ill with cancer). At every milonga we've been to teachers perform stage tango, and often it's fabulous to watch.
At Salon Canning last week, after the usual tango show, we were treated to a couple of young dancers performing rock and roll. It was so incredible to watch and we were so entertained by the enthusiastic flips and swings and sweeps and turns - at a time when neither of us yet had the courage to look at a fellow dancer from the waist up for fear of having to ask/being asked to dance (or worse, rejection!) - that we were considering swapping genres. The irony was not lost on us: taking up tango in Australasia, we move to Buenos Aires to immerse ourselves, only to take up rock'n'roll. Perhaps we then move on to the States for further immersion, only to discover a fascination for Irish dancing. On to Ireland, but lo! They have great Viennese Waltz teachers... Oh, how dance can open up your world! Anyway, we're leveled out now, we can look people directly in the eye with less fear (but always a little) and rock'n'roll is great just for watching.
We've only just begun going to classes and it's a game of hit and miss because there are HUNDREDS of teachers to choose from. Fortunately classes with most teachers average at NZ$5 per person, so we can afford to try out whichever classes suit our available time until we find the ones that suit us. The best lesson we've learned is to attend classes before milongas (most have one, or a class and a practica even better). It's still hit and miss who you'll have teaching you, what style of dance they teach and whether they're good at teaching. Just because it's Mecca doesn't mean everyone's fabulous! - but it's a great way to meet people and ensure a few dances at the milonga later. We've come across a couple of very good teachers and a couple who didn't suit us so well, but as mentioned before, we're not in a hurry.
Unlike to digress - taxi drivers, bus drivers, train drivers, drivers of anything in Buenos Aires, who are all clearly greatly pressed for time and have a different view to ours about who is responsible for keeping said vehicle on the road/track. We think it's them and we don't trust them a bit because they think it's God. Non-existent road rules - heaven only knows if there's a speed limit here - mean the unwritten law is "bravest man wins". Taxi drivers hedge their bets at all times by driving along the centre line rather than in the lanes, ensuring quick and alarming swerves to left or right can be made at any time. Intersections without traffic lights are crossed first by whoever is in a greater rush and if there's a near miss (there are many) the driver will cross himself and, thus ensured of his safety, carry on as normal. Recently, however, our driver started nodding off at an intersection, which simply won't get him anywhere.
Our apartment is only 10 minutes from the CBD by tube, but this a no more comfortable option. Not that you would mention it to the locals, who are all much enamored of the train on our particular line. It must have been built in the twenties or thereabouts. Made entirely of old, dry, perfectly inflammable wood and due to collapse in upon itself at any moment (no doubt while we're on it), it has flexy walls, the windows are always left open, and the doors don't lock, so that as the train is hurtling in to each station people due to get off are able to open the doors in preparation, often jumping on to the platform while the train's still moving. Today one of the doors beside us simply didn't close so we held on for dear life (whilst maintaining our calm, I'm-a-local-been-doing-this-for-years exterior) as we hurtled through the tunnel past trains a hand-span away on the neighbouring line.
Transport woes aside though, we're starting to learn the ways of living and dancing in BA. The language keeps us perfectly mentally challenged so that we're not always a hundred percent sure we'll get what we ordered in a café, that the taxi driver will deliver us to the address we gave; that we've said yes to something we should have said no to. We're drinking far more beer than is healthy it's very hot, beer's the only thing for it not helped at all by the food on offer: we're on the search for a selection of restaurants whose menus don't contain only schnitzel, steak, chips and pizza. Is a lightly steamed brocolli flower so much ask for?! But, we're very happy with our lucky lot. Working, playing, dancing and being constantly challenged by a new environment and, of course, every step of tango we dance.
Anyway, if you've got this far through this extremely long email it's probably time to get back to work! :-) Please feel free to write back to us (at either of the addresses below) with any news or gossip about tango in Christchurch, which despite all that's on offer here we miss very much. It's a truly divine tango scene we have there and no matter how great BA turns out to be for us, it'll be great to get back to it!
Regards from afar, and happy holidays to everyone!
Robert and Antoinette
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www.tango.gen.nz/christchurch
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