2003 was the year of the "Sexual Predators on the Dancefloor" debate. Oh dear...
Subject: Hamburg stories
Created on 23 Aug 2002 12:49:52
Message #985 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
The festival here is just WONDERFUL.
There were demos last night from Gustavo Naveira/Giselle Anne and Eduardo Capussi/Mariana Flores. Eduardo and Mariana were incredible and danced with their hearts, the crowd were nearly on their feet by the end, but Gustavo and Giselle Anne were something else again.
Perfect mastery and elegance, with Giselle Anne obviously back-leading from time to time. They danced sometimes with trad tango and sometimes with more latiny-salsa-ish 4/4 dance music.
One can't watch Gustavo/Giselle dance and avoid it having an effect on one's style, they were incredible.
I've talked to Gustavo re coming out to NZ, which will need some coordination between Auckland, Wellington and perhaps Australia but it sounds fairly do-able. I'll talk to Fernanda Ghi and Guillermo Merlo about it after their demo tonight. These 2 teachers are the reason that I'm here...
The band, Sexteto Canyengue, are one of the finest in Europe and the music was everything that I could ask for (except they only played one Piazzolla, 'Zum'. They played it in the Pugliese style that everyone has heard).
Mainly trad tango but with some amazing, very exciting milongas that I haven't heard before. The DJ played a wide range of music as well, with every song expressive, beautiful or exciting. I danced from 10pm-2:30am in about 30 degrees with everyone saturated within 30 minutes. They had 6 big fans going but it's an old building with minimal ventilation.
Very soggy but I'm still buzzing from it and I've only had 2 hours sleep!
Hamburg is fab for tango, with dancing 6 nights per week (7 this week, there's an open air dance in the botanical gardens on Monday). The best part is that many Wellington dancers would have a great time here, in that our local standard is not dissimilar.
The people are very warm and friendly, 90% speak English (and find my miniscule German amusing but appreciate that I try) and the city is very beautiful. The public transport is great, and in fact the only things that detract from the experience is the shortage of internet cafés (I have found2!) and the strength of the Euro.
It's so much fun here that I'm staying a bit longer and will be gritting my teeth when I leave (on the other hand I may just come back here a bit earlier before I fly out...) I'll send more stories as they arrive...
Geoff
Subject: German dance stories
Created on 02 Sep 2002 11:35:33
Message #1001 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
'ellooooo!!
I am now seeing NZ-blue sky in Hamburg for the first time, I've only seen alight hazy blue until now.
One of my tango friends is also a very good ballroom dancer and I travelled to the German Open this past weekend to cheer. I ended up dancing quite a lot of tango too, so it worked out really well.
The German Open was really interesting and exciting because I had friends who were competing. I have never seen so many incredibly beautiful people in one place. The best ballroom/latin dancers in the world were there and I was surprised that I could see the differences between good and not so good, at least in the Standard section (English waltz, viennese waltz, tango, slow foxtrot and quickstep). I can't tell the difference in Latin American, it just seems a lot of hip action and aggressive sexuality, except that all the men are gay and you know that it has no meaning!
Speaking of men, they are so FRIENDLY at these competitions, always smiling at me and obviously wanting to say hello. I am thinking of wearing baggier clothing and perhaps a paper bag over my head...
I have found some brilliant music at the CD stores at the Open, including old Candombe, milonga and vals. It's very strange but I am now dancing to music that has much more drive than before and am really starting to enjoy the older recordings. I listened to Jessica Ipdenkranz on the way home (160K on the autobahn most of the way for 5 hours) and it sounded thin, as though it needed more oomph. Piazzolla is still my fave, though, as with most people here that I have met.
They (the Germans as well as the Argentinos) also dance a lot to Gotan Project and they play salsa once every hour or so for 1 or 2 songs as a change of pace and to allow people to change partners. There is also some modern candombe which is amazing, filled with passion and drive. I'll try to find it before I come back.
Re the German Open, my friends (Elli and Olaf. Yes, Elli and Olli!) finished 5th! It was incredible watching and helping it happen. We would dance at the CD store in between rounds, as tango helps her to relax, away from competition, and Olli is keen for her to dance tango as the relaxation improves her following. We would (ahem) always attract audiences so it appealed to the show off in me as well!
We also gate crashed the Argentine Tango warm up session! It was the first time that there was a class for it at the Open and we were interested to see what the standard was like as most tango people that we know were skeptical of it, what with ballroom judges trying to judge such an emotional dance etc. The standard was awful, some of the dancers looked good before they started (adornos etc) but when they began it was clear that they had no understanding of the dance.
It was trick-trick-trick, all done with no heart and no relationship, as though they learned it from a video. Women were firing off boleos without their partners' involvement (which personally I have no problem with) but it was so obviously rehearsed...This was in the heats. I watched 2 and left in disgust.
By comparison, we were legends in the warmup! All the others wore 'tango gear' (black, black and black, some men with hats) but Elli wore her red glittery ballroom dress and I wore only my leather thong and ballroom pumps. (No, I actually wore black as well but it sounded too boring.)
The crowd was applauding like crazy, and then the music stopped and the other couples left the floor. We, naturally, stayed on and practiced a few things like a cool scissor-lift that I saw Ezukiel perform (one of the demo people at the festival that we went out for dinner with), and a really cool little straight-back boleo that Daniel, another Argentinian, was doing. So... they put the music back on and we danced on the floor alone with about a couple of 100 or so spectators clapping etc. Eventually the other competitors came back on but by then we had a pretty good fan base and everyone was friendly and smiley when we left the floor.
Never let it be said that my ego is satisfied! Yay me!
Germany is similar to NZ in so many ways. There are Real Blokes, the provinces have Honda CRX sporty cars with pumping sound systems driven by young men, there are warm funny people everywhere, it's great! Salary numbers are the same here as at home, just like the US. Everyday prices are the same as well, mostly. Coffee is $2.50, gas is $1.05/litre etc. I leave for Paris in a day or so, but can recommend Germany, and certainly Hamburg to anyone as a tango holiday destination. It's a very very fun, friendly place.
Stay cool, and dance with your heart!
Geoff
Subject: Hamburg Tango, afterwards
Created on 14 Oct 2002 08:00:39
Message #1056 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
I've been back from Europe for a couple of weeks now and thought I'd share a few thoughts on differences between dancing in Hamburg and in Wellington.
Overall, dancing in Hamburg was an incredible experience, beginning with watching dancers like Gustavo Naveira and Giselle Ann at the festival, and following on from there to the normal Hamburg tango life of dancing 6-7 nights/week, with several milonga options on some nights, with warm, friendly, English-speaking, excellent dancers.
The Frame
The good dancers moved back and forth between milonguero (close-hold) and salon (open-frame) but the overall preference of most dancers was very much milonguero, and I think this was largely responsible for the high level of dancing. If you are not dancing milonguero now then you should try it and keep at it. It will test if you can walk correctly, if your balance is good, if you can control your momentum and not pass it to your partner. It also feels much nicer...
Walking
Many of the dancers here don't walk correctly, with the result that their balance suffers and they pick up momentum very quickly, which they can't fail to pass to their partners (because that's just what happens, it has to go somewhere). Wellington teachers have been teaching walking for years but students need to practice it if they hope to improve. It is the single biggest improvement anyone can make to their dancing.
Movement
All of the good dancers were able to 'play' within the structure of the music in more than one plane of movement (depending on the spirit of the music, and whether they felt like it). That is, many Wellington dancers hold themselves erect and move around the floor in an upright manner to a 1-2-3-4 rhythm, some of them more with the beat than with their partner. The good dancers could blend their combined bodies into the music with combinations of regular steps and :- forward/backward/sideways check-steps (ie not taking a full step)- swing (sideways rocking of the upper body while taking a step or a check-step)- vertical movement (moving up or down to mark the beat, usually to change feet but not always, sometimes it was like a skipping motion for example within a milonga beat)
The best leaders, if they were dancing with a good follower, were able to lead this with a relatively close frame (if they felt like it) but with everyone else they would lead it milonguero as it was much easier (and a lot nicer!) than having the lead absorbed by 2 pairs of arms. The swing movement was usually not very big although I've been leading it that way since I've been back to give my partners the feel of it (although Gustavo and Giselle Ann did a rollicking BIIIIIIIIIIIG swing while dancing tango to a salsa song in their opening demo!).
Milonga
I thought when I left for Europe that we were probably dancing milonga too fast and I know now that we certainly do! I looked around after 2 milongas last Wednesday and saw people bathed in rivers of sweat and asking for the music to be changed, while my partner and I were a little warm but nothing serious. I used to get very soggy during a milonga as well but the crucial difference is that I now dance milonga (and everything else) in a very close hold, diaphragm to diaphragm. This connects you with your partner as one body and opens up a huge range of options such as the swing/check/up/down movements, without making you feel as though you have to race around the room to stay on the beat. The movements become much more subtle, and dancing 5 milongas in a row becomes quite do-able and A LOT MORE FUN!
In addition, it opens up the possibility of dancing to amazingly complex tempo changes that pop up from time to time in candombe and milonga. I can't imagine anyone actually being to lead or follow these with an open frame (but I might be surprised). They are DEFINITELY danceable with milonguero and feel incredible!
Music
They danced to just about anything! I watched Argentinians, Germans, Italians, Belgians, French, Spaniards, Hungarians, Russians, Taiwanese, you name it, dancing to trad composers such as De Sarli, D'Arienzo and Pugliese through to Piazzolla, Gotan Project, Loreena McKennett, anything that they liked. The best tango group in Europe, Sexteto Canyengue, played a similarly wide range of music at the festival including very jazzy contemporary tango and no-one complained that "it wasn't really tango".
** In fact, in a place where English was spoken a lot (and where Gustavo and Giselle Ann were dancing tango to salsa) I never once heard the phrase "Of course, that kind of style/music/whatever is not really tango..." which I have heard too many times to count in Wellington.
I think that their dancing to a wide range of music means that, because they learn to blend their bodies into different styles in different ways, they gain more control and a more flexible approach to musical interpretation. (I got bored at one point while waiting for a musical interlude (a 'cortina') to finish and my partner and I ended up dancing to Vivaldi's Four Seasons for 1.5 minutes. A couple of other dancers joined us!) (We were hot!)
Finally I was told by Jose Gordobil, an Argentinian who runs the Universo Tango studio in Hamburg, that there were 3 big centers of tango in Europe: Amsterdam, Berlin and Hamburg. I can recommend Hamburg to anyone!
Geoff
Subject: Hugo and Andrea- brilliant, just brilliant
Created on 11 Nov 2002 12:20:34
Message #1102 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls View discussion(2 messages)
I would madly encourage everyone who can afford it to have lessons with Hugo and Andrea. I had a private lesson tonight which was just incredible, they are considerate, kind, amusing teachers who are also very very clear about technique, posture and balance. It is 1am and I am still buzzing with what I have learned, followed by 3 hours of dancing at Tessa's dance at 4E. God knows if I will be able to sleep tonight...Geoff
Subject: Tango in Perth
Created on 12 Mar 2003 09:17:39
Message #1271 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Hello everyone, the temperature has finally dropped down to where I can write about what I've been doing in Perth. I arrived on the evening of Thursday 27th March, and have been having a wonderful time ever since, in spite of the past 5 days being a Bit Too Damned Hot, with 1 43 degree day which was the hottest in 8 years (the previous day was 42!). I thought that March would be safe from the heat but apparently not...
The evening after I arrived I went to the Friday night tango practice, met some very friendly people and made arrangements for some casual dancing rendezvous (rendezvouseses?) over the next few days. After-wards we danced to a salsa band at the Sheraton (it has air con, which is always nice!).These people hadn't danced tango to salsa before but were over the moon about it by the end of the evening. We danced on a marble area away from the he main dance floor (just in case we killed anyone with flying feet) and had people clapping and telling us how wonderful we were (and I can handle any amount of that).
After the tango practice a very kind English gentleman named John asked if I would be interested in teaching a Piazzolla workshop, as it's a musical style that many tango dancers have trouble with but is quite common in Wellington. The Piazzolla workshop turned into more of a brief discussion about interpretation and approach, followed by a couple of demos to Piazzolla's 'Romance del Diablo' and Monserrat Caballé's 'Hijo de la Luna'. Everyone was very enthusiastic and my partner and I were asked to give another demo this Friday at the Perth Tango Club's monthly dance in Fremantle (hooray!).
One of the dancers, was quite happy to come with me to the Perth Art Gallery that week. Here, we strapped on the discman, plugged in our earphones and danced for an hour in the air conditioned coolness. It was GREAT, but we eventually were moved on by a redneck guard (the other guards were quite happy). We were quite hot by then so we went in search of a cafe for lunch but passed by a CD store, heard a nice song and started dancing our way down the walkway (it was on the first floor of a mall and very wide). A lot of people were smiling, a few people cheered, and then we found our cafe for lunch. After-wards we danced our way across a pedestrian mall (without music), a girl applauded and an old Italian man came up to us exclaiming "It's tango! It's tango!". He walked along beside us telling us how much he loved the dance and how we looked wonderful, we had really made his day! Since then I've been to the Perth zoo, been swimming at the beach a lot (late in the day to avoid the sun, it's really fierce), and hanging out with friends.
I also had a private lesson and a couple of group lessons from Pedro Arandia, a friend of Hugo and Andrea's and the best dancer that I've seen in Perth. He's really something, very elegant and smooth, precise and with a very friendly and supportive teaching manner. He's also interested in coming to New Zealand to teach with his partner Laura, and I can give him my heart felt recommendation. The private lesson was in 35 degrees with no air-con so I was a mess by the end, but it was a brilliant lesson and if I stayed longer then I would do more with him.
I missed the Friday night practice because it was so hot and went straight to Salsa at the Sheraton where I met some other dancers and we tried somethings that I'd learned from a video and practiced at the Art gallery. It was really exciting and I met another Italian named Luciano (late 50s) who spends his Friday nights inviting women to dance (whether dancers or not), leading them through increasingly complex dance steps until they are smiling but exhausted and then leading them back to their seats, flushed and happy. He repeats this all night, is obviously madly in love with dancing and is rather a hero.
I went to a tango fancy dress party on Saturday night, with the theme of Arabian Nights. I got there at 8 pm after a day of 39 degrees and it didn't cool down until 11:30pm. Perth dancers do rather need to harden up a bit as they shut the music off at 1am. It was Gotan project and I was having a great time dragging around these poor over-tired local women!
The past few days have been spent in malls wherever possible trying to escape the midday heat. It's been so hot that I am looking forward to London where it may be cold but at least I can dance! I've been told that I should try busking there as the pound notes have been replaced by coins which are a bit easier for people to give away! Yeah baby!
To sum up my dance experiences here:- The Perth standard of dancing is overall quite similar to Wellington, has at least one brilliant teacher and the people are very very friendly.- It's surprising how few dance events there are, with most activity being lessons followed by 15 minutes of practice. A Swiss couple had heard about Wellington from a Swiss friend who told them that Wellington had an active dance scene, with a number of dance events per week. They are keen to visit, just for the extra dance time. I had to tell them that their friend had sold me my dance shoes in Hamburg and I was responsible for the well-founded rumour (it's a small world...).-
There is a rather fractured feel to the dance community along teacher-loyalty lines. For instance, at the fancy dress night I was asked if I had seen any dancers that I liked in Perth and I said that Pedro Arandia was the best dancer that I had seen here. The person was surprised and told me that she didn't think he was that impressive, tried to argue me out of my opinion and pointed out her teacher. He was quite good but rather obviously (I thought) nowhere near Pedro's league so I just held my tongue and left her with her viewpoint and I with mine.
I mentioned this to one of my Perth friends who told me that the Perth Tango Club are trying to change this by trying to grow events that are independent of the teachers and so bring the scene together.-
The high heels have got to go! I had a few knee problems here and there in Wellie and wasn't sure whether it was my 2 inch heels or not, but dancing in flats has assured me that the heels were the problem, so I'll buy some soft-sole flats when I get to London. I've been using insoles to take up the space in my street dancing shoes and make them a tighter fit.
Soooo, if you're holidaying in Perth, bring your shoes! And a Walkman! It's not really a tango destination but it's certainly a stopover and you always travel with your shoes anyway, don't you?
Take care y'all! I'm dreadfully sorry but I appear to be terribly terribly happy!
Geoff
Subject: London tango stories
Created on 27 Mar 2003 18:06:49Message #1291 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Dear all,
I have a little more time to write today as I must stay home with a cold and bronchitis. The bronchitis is what everyone gets when they come here, it's from the smog and lasts about 2 weeks, apparently. In short, I am not enjoying London at all. By comparison, I had only been a couple of days in Hamburg and felt that I could live there. When I was in Paris, I was there 3 days, found it stunningly beautiful and LOVED it but knew that I wouldn't want to live there.
London is very different! I wasn't prepared for the relentless grey-and-brown, grey-and-brown of the architecture, the strong air of urban decay and the sameness of everything. I have been here for 1.5 weeks now and finally found somewhere that looked almost pretty (St James Park) except that the mist in the trees was brown smog. I may feel differently once I am earning pounds and able to get away in the weekends.
On the bright side, the temp admin work front is looking possible as is the project management side. The dancing here has been very surprising in that there are large numbers of beginners and intermediates but a very small number of good dancers. The scene is also surprisingly small, considering the size of the city, but very keen and I have now been to many of the larger events such as the Dome, the Crypt, the Welsh centre, Corrientes, plus some others (sometimes 2 events in one night in a search for interesting music), and have seen many of the same faces at each event.
The music has been predominantly fixed-tempo with not much in the way of mood variation within each song, so Beth and I have been finding the music a bit dreary. For example, most events don't play much Pugliese or De Sarli, so we have bought dance-sneakers and are planning to practice with a Discman in the tube stations after the rush hour. Austin and Angel in particular have quite a wide tiled surface, but 'stand clear of the yellow line when trains are approaching!'
On the bright side, we have met Pablo Verona and Sally Potter who were a pleasure to watch. They flowed around the floor, less concerned with flashy, crisp technique and more with gliding gliding gliding...
I have seen 3 demos by teachers since our arrival and I would like to take a moment to congratulate Matthew, Sarah, Alex and Olga for the high quality of their demos. All but one of the demos here were surprisingly short on technique (eg awful footwork, walk or hip rotation by at least one partner) and all of them had only an occasional relationship with the music.
My plan is to take lessons during the week, rather than go to dance events, and travel to Paris/Amsterdam/etc for dance weekends. I have found some brilliant dancers, who I hope will be brilliant teachers. They are Leandro/Andrea and Stefano/Alexandra and they teach from the same school Monday-Thursday, £10/hour. It all sounds a bit expensive, but with airfares to Amsterdam of £20 things aren't looking too bad!
My flat is 175 Chatsworth Road, Hackney and on my A-Z it's on page 51, off Lea Bridge Rd near the Clapton train station. I hope to move in next week but am living rent free for now in Old St which is closer to dance events and classes so I am in no hurry. My cellphone is 07940 802 528.
Stay cool,
Geoff
Subject: London tango adventures
Created on 21 Apr 2003 19:55:53
Message #1334 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Hi there,
At last, we've found a great tango venue! It's taken a lot of looking butt here's a brilliant dance at the Bedford pub in Balham Hill, near the Balham tube. Brilliant music, songs from almost every era (but no Gotan Project yet), each with lots of character and SUCH a pleasure to dance to. It's a wonderful warm setting with red drapes, nice chairs, a lovely floor, quite intimate but with lots of room to move with about 50 or so dancers there last night. It's run by Leonardo and Bridget, a very warm and friendly Argentinian and his very warm and friendly German partner.
Leonardo loves to announce each tanda and especially loves to introduce his favorites, 'De Sarrrrrrrrrli!''Puglieeeeeeeeeeeese!' and throwing in little whoops during the more exciting milongas. He's GREAT! They also run a regular Friday dance in Wimbledon (which is even further from my flat, probably 1.5 hours by tube and late bus!) (but that's London for you!)
Both these dances start early and finish late (ie class at 6, dance 7-10:30) to allow people time to catch the tube home as most of the other dances are north of the river and these 2 are out in the sticks by comparison. To be fair, it takes me nearly 1 hour by bus/tube to get to the Saturday Corrientes dance and 45 minutes to get to my lessons, and that's not unusual for the locals, most of whom simply go to the lessons straight after work.
So, now my week is filled with lessons with Leandro, Andrea, Stefano and Alexandra (who are amazing dancers and still the best that we've seen here,as well as brilliant teachers of technique and 'flavour') and my weekends will be Friday in Wimbledon, Saturday in Russell Square and Sunday in Balham.
Olé!
Geoff
Subject: Fwd: [tangoauckland] Letters From Buenos Aires
Created on 13 Jul 2003 00:53:56
Message #1467 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls View discussion(2 messages)
This is just GREAT!! Bob sent it out to the tangoauckland list.
Letters From Buenos Aires
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:25:48 +1200
I have a friend, Rick McGary, his regular residence is the USA, however at this time he is having an extended stay in Buenos Aires. Some of you may remember I re-distributed his B'As diary of a couple of years ago, to the Auckland Tango community. Well Rick is pounding away at the typewriter again, and we are fortunate that hat he has given me permission to re-distribute his latest writings. At the moment he has got to # 7, I've no idea how long they will run for,but we'll start at #1 and I'll send out another every few days. So here is #1
Rick McGary, Tempary Res BsAs.
It's my first time down here in BA in winter, and it's very different. The city has a brooding quality- grey clouds, grey trees, grey buildings, and people wearings somber expressions and muted winter clothes. It's especially striking since this was an unanticipated (and for the most part unwanted) last minute trip. One day we were baking in Southern Arizona, and the next we are in dripping, cold BA. From shorts and flip flops, 295 degrees watching the mountains burning up and frying eggs on the forehead, to a rainy, cloudy, midwinter Ingmar Bergman movie. But not just the weather is different. The quick change confirmed some things I suspected in the past, but wasn't sure of until now: the food really is better and healthier here, the service is better, and the people, despite their worried distracted expressions, are more open and friendly. It's surprising how nice it is to be greeted again with hugs and kisses by the old milongueros and milongueras. It reminds me of the kisses I received as a child from uncles and grandparents.
And of course, I'm instantly reminded that we are back in the Major Leagues of tango. I had some time today to browse through the archives,and it occurs to me how far this world is from that of most of the people on tango-L. The things that concern many people on the list are not necessarily wrong. Well, okay, some are just stupid... but most are just very different than the things people down here in BA would think about or discuss in the tango world. Of course tango is huge, and how you see it depends on your perspective. Like a blind man describing an elephant, you can run into trouble trying to generalize from limited information. With that caveat, I'll try to post a few impressions with as much objectivity as possible.
1. Suburbs v. El Centro.
My friend Barbara Garvey is one of the most knowledgeable people writing on this list. She and Al were dancing in BA ten years before I ever even heard of tango, and I agree with her views on most (but not all) things. For the last three years I've been checking out the milongas down here,and filming in many of them. I agree with her that tango in the neighborhoods is a great experience. My partner Alejandra Todaro and I were dancing Saturday night in some of the old clubs in Mataderos and Bajo Flores.
Two of these clubs - America del Sud and Pedro Echague - were the same ones Alejandra's parents took her as a child. They still exist in the same locations, but the interiors have been fixed up, and in fact they are now nicer and newer than the most of the shabbier clubs downtown. The deserted streets outside seem a little spooky and dangerous, but probably no more so than some of the poorer parts of downtown. The dancing and the atmosphere is different than downtown clubs. Saturday night in these clubs is for couples. These milongas are like house parties between very old friends, but they are also very warm and welcoming to strangers, and there is plenty of room to dance. Couples who never dance downtown have been going to them for many many years. It's called La Salida de Sabado. They get haircuts, dress up, have dinner, socialize, and dance. Many of the strict downtown codes don't apply, and the people know it. For instance, in the neighborhoods they always say goodbye to one another when they leave, but this can be a big code violation downtown (Can you guess why?) Also, they sometimes smile and talk while dancing...but it's done with complete respect for the music, the other couples, and the milonga. I've seen this and written about it before at Sunderland. But like the blind man and the elephant, generalizations can get you into trouble. Don't try it at home. Or worse, downtown. While Saturday is also couples night in many downtown clubs, it doesn't have the intimate casual atmosphere of the barrios.
2. Close v. Open embrace.
To me, this is one of the big non-issues of tango. True musical passionate tango is good tango, open or closed. Alejandra and I dance close because 1. We like it, and 2. It's a necessity for very crowded conditions- and many good milongas are crowded at one time or another. I don't know or care if close embrace is new or not, but I am sure of this: In the popular milongas of downtown BA almost everyone dances close. I mean everyone. In the neighborhoods at least half the couples dance close, maybe more. I haven't been everywhere, and I don't know if it's apilado, with weight on the chest or not, but in the places I've been, it's very close. I have it on film.
3. Quality of dancing:
This is a judgment call, but I'm also sure of this: The people downtown dance better. Here's why. The neighborhood people are good dancers, but they dance mostly on the weekends, and they combine it with socializing. Like weekend athletes, casual golfers, and bowlers in a beer league, they can be good, but normally not great. The people downtown, on the other hand, (and this includes many milongueros from the neighborhoods who travel along way downtown regularly to dance), are the wild eyed fanatics of tango. They come to dance, and only to dance. They are the ski bums, the gym rats, the guys you see in the pool halls and on the handball courts 10 hours a day. Don't mess with them, because you will lose. There are some very good dancers int he neighborhoods of course, but for every very good dancer at America Sur, there are 10 very very very good dancers at Celia Blanco's Baile.
I should note that you need to compare apples to apples, so in this case I'm comparing the quality of the barrio dancers who are uniformly older in coats and ties, with the traditional milongas downtown of dressed up older milongueros. These are not the milongas of the younger people. Some of them are good dancers with a different style that I would like to discuss later. Neither am I talking about the well-known milongas of wolves and caribou. These are the ones where washed up tango celebrities stalk the tourists (I would have used the local expression -FISH for tourists, but I didn't want to mix metaphors).
4. Style of dancing:
In 1987 Barbara says most of the close embrace couples downtown walked and did ochos. I think it's different today. In the first place, it's too crowded to walk. Last night at Celia Blanco's we felt very lucky to take more than one step at a time. Literally. We danced with left arm (Alejs right) against our bodies much of the time. The milongueros call this dancing on a baldosa. Baldosas are the old 1 ft. Square tiles on many of the floors down here. They pride themselves on dancing complex cadences within this tiny space, and they say only the best dancers can do it well (there are apocryphals stories of couples in the old days dancing on the tops of small tables).
This dancing consists mostly of syncopation's and giros in infinite combination, with an occasional elegantly executed step front, side, or back to fill a small, shifting free space. It's not always fun, at least at first, and it takes adjustment after six months of sloppy U.S. tango, but like it or not, THIS is tango at the highest level. (Note for the good/bad instructor thread: Next time you are in class, ask the instructor if he can give you the tools that will allow you to put your heart and soul into avals in this situation. If so, you have a good instructor).
I found myself cheating by dancing from the start of the music to take advantage of what little space there was for 30 seconds of relaxed dancing before the shifting and jostling began. As for ochos, don't get me wrong. This is only part of the elephant, but, no kidding, here is what the milongueros say: Men who lead a lot of ochos can't dance.
If there is time later, I may write more about some of the people, the clubs, the codes, and maybe some other things here- like some very macho transvestite prostitutes in Villa Crespo.
Forwarded by Bob Ramsey-Turner
Subject: Message from Beth
Created on 15 Jun 2003 09:47:26
Message #1424 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
Hello there! My Birthday is on Friday June 20th! Geoff will be running his dance this Friday as per normal, but it will also be a chance to celebrate my Birthday with all of my Tango mates - you!
So please come and help yourself to finger food. Bring your own booze if you fancy and any non-dancing friends are VERY welcome to come - chat, eat, watch and help me celebrate my coming of age!!
It's at Viva Latina studio, 8 Fifeshire Ave, off Kent Terrace in Wellington, New Zealand. If those of you in Perth and London can make it, then it would be fab! See you there!
Bethie !!
Subject: A personal opinion
Created on 19 Aug 2003 06:45:58
Message #1560 of 3453
Posted By Neville Waisbrod
This is my first time writing to the group. I am writing on a sensitive subject and want to start out by saying that I care about the Wellington Tango Community. I say community because some of us have been around for awhile and the saying 'The friends you had before Tango' comes to mind. I have made some amazing friends and I know that some of them will last a lifetime.
And now the hard part. I have pondered as to why the scene has changed over the last few years. My perception is that it has changed and, am sorry to say, not for the better. I've asked several dancers - men and women - what they thought some of the issues are and have come to some of my own personal conclusions.
There are lots of teachers in Wellington and there has to be some explanation as to why we have so few dancers joining the social dance scene. I know that the Wellington population is not huge but I also know there are quite a few people going to lessons. Some will not take it up, some will dance occasionally, and those that will get hooked.
I think there are various reasons for fewer people getting hooked. The first is the WAY we dance. There are umpteen styles of Tango but I think there is a definite line between social and show - Fantasia - Tango. Most of us have been through the phase where we were taught lots of fancy steps by teachers who were maybe apprehensive about losing students if they didn't make it 'interesting' enough. This possibly gave us, and maybe still is giving some students, the impression that this is the way Tango is danced socially. Show Tango is NOT Social Tango. Social Tango is primarily about feeling - the soul - the heart - the music - and communicating with and reading your partner. It's not about showing off. It's not a spectator sport. And, perhaps more importantly such moves can be downright dangerous to other dancers. Sometimes it is fun to see people do their 'out there' thing, but it's more appropriate when it's the exception, not the rule. Let's leave show Tango to the performers and the stage. If anyone can tell me that they have had a Tango moment during a jump or while they have their partner's leg wrapped somewhere around their neck, I think they are mistaking a Tango moment for something else.
I know that we have lots of space in Wellington but after having danced in several (maybe more than several) places worldwide I have yet to see jumps and leg wraps done at a social dance. You'll seldom even see a gancho. We are supposed to be dancing Argentine Tango and there is a REASON why we try to follow this culture. It's because we want to dance Argentine Tango - not something else. Show Tango has it's place and is a useful tool in attracting new dancers, but it can never convey what Tango is really about because it's impossible to SHOW the feeling.
The next issue is a little more sensitive. Tango is a sensual dance - no doubt about it. Sensual NOT sexual. It would appear to me that we have lost a certain amount of respect for each other in the practice of the dance. I believe there to be a lot of unacceptable behavior in our Tango community that it's sending confusing messages to prospective dancers - potential members of our dance community. Current behaviors may certainly be driving people away; people who may be discouraged by some of the antics being performed on the floor.
For dancers with partners, dance as if your partner were watching. For those dancing with others partners, show some respect and dance as if their partner were watching. There are some dancers who behave quite differently when their partners are there and when they are not. OK, so you believe that it's none of my business as to how people behave. You may be right, and then you may not be. I believe it is my business - as it is ALL of ours. It would seem that nobody enters into Tango short term; it's too hard to learn, especially for the guys. Lets face it, 'but he led it' and 'I didn't tell her to put her arms around me' doesn't wash. The fact IS that it does actually take two.
And while I am on the subject of dance etiquette: There are only two reasons for a man to take a woman's right hand to his heart (from the dance embrace) One is when the floor is so crowded that it means by doing so they will take up less space (as is often the case in BA) and the other is that there is something happening between the couple. The full, two-arm embrace means that there is something happening between the couple. For two single people or a couple - great! For a single person and half-of-a couple it is not good look.
Let us also remember the origins of the dance, when women were scarce and were to be wooed from the embraces of other suitors. Try and make the women feel as though you WANT to dance with her - NOT someone else - but HER.
With regards our teachers: We have some great and dedicated teachers in Wellington, and I know they do it for the love of it. It surely isn't for the money. However, it's a pity that there are teachers whose conduct leaves something to be desired. Teachers, in general, have a great deal of power over their students and this is why they especially need to show restraint when teaching (and dancing) this sensual dance. Some of their behavior would not be tolerated in n any other dance scene, let-a-lone any other teaching environment.
Some advice to new dancers also. Watch the more experienced dancers. See what's acceptable and what's not (I shudder on that note, given my present misgivings - so maybe get a Tango movie out on video showing a Milonga in BA:-)). If there is a male or female dancer who has been dancing a long time and dances predominately with beginners - beware! There may be a reason for this; that person may have a different agenda.
In conclusion I don't want to sound like a Tango purist - or a moral puritan for that matter. I could never claim to be either. But for those of us who have decided to be in this crazy world we call Tango, let's try and build a trusting and safe environment to dance (and have Tango moments) in.
Subject: RE: [tangosalsa] A personal opinion
Created on 19 Aug 2003 08:18:13
Message #1561 of 3453
Posted By salsacindy
Well done Neville. Good on you for saying what you think and feel (sadly, not many do). While I don't attend tango dances regularly, I have noticed that it is always the same people going along. There rarely seems to be 'new blood' coming into the scene. And I agree with you that a lot of that has to do with 'first impressions' and etiquette. I can whole heatedly imagine what a new person must feel like walking into one of the milongas/practicas and feeling completely overwhelmed and lost.
I often heard that from my tango students (when I taught it many moons ago) and even from my current salsa students at times. It certainly seems more prevalent in tango though.
So first impressions:- really good tango dancers... fancy steps ... I'll never be able to dance like that- everyone knows each other ... I don't know anyone ... I'll end up being a wallflower ...- everyone dances so close ... I don't want someone in my personal space ... look at where his hand is!- everyone seems to be in couples ... I don't have anyone to dance with ... no-one will ask me to dance= bugger this! I'm leaving!
How to get around this?- The "good" dancers could try to engage new-comers/strangers in conversation to make them feel welcome, dance with them a couple of times, introduce them to someone else to dance with - I would avoid correcting them or teaching them on the (milonga) floor even if they ask for some advice - save it for the practica or take it off the floor so that they don't feel embarrassed/stupid (as if they should!)
Closeness? Well, I like to dance close, and I think most people do - that's part of tango. And what is one person's 'sensuality' is another person's 'sexuality'. Personally, I like to let go and express myself fully through dancing. But I choose carefully who I do certain moves with. Even if their partner was there, I wouldn't adjust my dance style because that sends false messages to the other dancers present who know how I would normally dance with that person ('Is she guilty about something?'). And, that person I'm dancing with usually gives me some kind of clue as to how they want the dance to be conducted on each particular occasion (and vice versa).
Lastly, it's dancing, which by it's nature is close and intimate. Music and dancing asks for personal expression. And that's just it - its each individuals personal expression/interpretation, and how that fits in with their partner's. The "out there" thing? *giggle* - I'm definitely one of those people who like to do the "out there" wild steps every now and then. Again, it comes down to interpretation and how one feels the music. Often I end up doing wild steps because someone has frowned at me for being "non-tango". I do feel that tango in Wellington (and the world over perhaps) gets a bit too 'religious'. You know, sometimes I get the feeling that you're not allowed to smile or laugh while dancing tango because it's not "proper". Well sod that. Dancing is FUN. And some of those fast milongas are just hilarious. I'm definitely against the whole "purist" thing. Anything goes I say. But, yes, only when you are actually interpreting the music, not just showing off. Most of the time, quiet intimate tango walks and ochos are all that are asked for in the music - and that's great. Love it! That's what it should be - most of the time. But when someone wants to yahoo off in the middle of the floor - go for it! I applaud you (if it is truly worth applauding).
As for the teachers - DEFINITELY keep your distance. (I'm smiling just thinking about who you may be referring to Neville - tee hee hee!). A teacher would be crazy not to keep their professional distance anyway. Firstly, the dance community is small - everyone talks, even beginners. Secondly, students don't come from advertising, they come from word of mouth. And we all know that every p*ss*d off 'customer' tells about 7 others to take their business elsewhere.
But shit - what am I talking about? I'm dating one of my students!! (but,yes, we've been happily together for 6 months :-)
Besos...Cindy
Subject: A personal opinion
Created on 20 Aug 2003 06:29:19Message #1564 of 3453
Posted By peter moore View discussion(3 messages)
Hi all
No doubt there will be a flood of comments in reply to Neville's comments so I thought I would add to it. I haven't been dancing much recently since moving out of the city so I may have missed recent developments in the scene but I think there are some general points to bear in mind.
Firstly, it is somewhat inevitable that the "Wellington tango" will be a melting pot, or hodgepodge of different styles, as generally the teachers are amateurs from a variety of dancing backgrounds and the input from native Argentinians is sporadic.
Also, with a small group and high turnover of people that don't last As Neville points out there is a tendency to continue adding moves rather than getting really good at interpreting the music or just doing the basics with style. Most relative newcomers and many old hands will therefore dance tango which is a mix of several styles (salon, milonga,show tango, their own variants etc.) regardless of the style of music, because ignorance is bliss.
That is not a criticism, just a fact of life. We cannot recreate Buenos Aires in Wellington. For one thing, they do dress in black a lot, take tango far too seriously, and the dance floors are really crowded - so that is why they have to dance the way they do. Even locals are so intimidated by the milongas, they may train for months or years before being brave enough to venture forth on the dance floor (well that was what one person told me in BA).
Wellington dance floors are fairly empty a lot of the time, so dancers will definitely take more space and the opportunity to do more moves, plus everyone is welcome on the dance floor (as they should be).
Having said that we can learn a lot from the Argentinians for all facets of dancing tango well. We should also remember that there are several types of dance that fall under the collective group of tango dances, including salon tango, show tango, milonga, cajenge (sorry - forgot how to spell that), vals. All have their place and the trick as you get more experienced is recognising the music for which each is danced.
I'm not that far down the track myself being a part-time tango dancer. Teachers can, and do, help there, DJs often have prepared sets of similar songs, and people in the know can also help the others in their learning - hopefully in a friendly way though. I guess it is like dancing a fox-trot to a waltz. Just look at the variety of workshops at the Collectivos - wonderful stuff, and overwhelming at the same time.
Dance politeness is important, and that is going to vary with personalities. We all should have a feeling for when it is appropriate to be flashy. Dance politeness means that if you have room, then flashy moves and ganchos etc are OK, but always remember that other couples are rotating round the room and no one likes to be badly impeded or injured. I think both partners should be aware of their space, which means you don't dance with your eyes closed in my opinion, at least not when it is crowded - that way both can know whether there is room for a voleo or to avoid a collision.
Education and good communication is the key. And yes we should have fun, and laughing at ourselves and showing we are having a good time has its place too. A good mix is healthy. A serious tango is a wonderful experience and a light-hearted one is too.
Take care of your partner and be polite to others who are dancing and you can't go wrong ??
Cheers
Peter Moore
Subject: Personal Opinion
Created on 24 Aug 2003 11:50:55
Message #1569 of 3453
Posted By Geoff Nicholls
I wasn't going to add anything of my own to the responses concerning Neville's e-mail, and I have been happily surprised by the constructive nature of the responses and by how much I enjoyed them. Thank you very much, Cindy and Peter! And Neville, who kicked it off.
I would like to comment on a view expressed in both Cindy and Neville's e-mails, which was, "Don't teach on the dance floor, save it for the practica, even if your partner asks for help".
In my view, the fundamental problem with this is that it is no help at all for people who don't attend the Saturday practica. Many people don't, or only dance once a week, or every 2weeks. They would like to improve, however slightly, and asking for feedback at dances is the only way for these people. (Yes, they could go to teachers but the fact is that they don't.)
In addition, people dance for a variety of reasons. Some are happy with their current level, whatever that is, would like to get better someday, in a general way, but would really just like to enjoy the social dance atmosphere. That's not a problem so long as they don't hurt their partner, at which point their partner should feel free to offer feedback! (This is not only when a man kicks his partner in a failed sacada, it can be a woman hanging her weight on a man and straining his back and shoulders, or using him for leverage in a failed ocho, with the same result. )
Others are driven to learn more, want to get better as quickly as possible and are prepared to ask the more experienced dancers for help. I don't see any reason to hold these people back in the name of g gallantry, protection of beginners and the ethics of another culture. It's true that they will receive somewhat dubious advice from time to time, but they will take from it what they can until they receive better advice later on. That is the nature of living in a frontier-town, tangoically-speaking, although in fairness the depth of dancing in Wellington is improving over time and the general standard here is higher than London and about the same as Perth. If people want help or advice, ask! If you don't want to offer it on dance night, don't!
Geoff
Subject: More Personal Opinion
Created on 25 Aug 2003 00:05:13
Message #1571 of 3453
Posted By Gordon Cessford
Hi folks
Nice to see a wee bit of discussion going on about this and that in tango-land. In the absence of any dominant teacher junta telling us "it must be like this!", we've had lots of freedom to experiment and grow the tango among ourselves, and we all have (or are developing) our own different dancing personalities. We dance to a wider range of music than do folks at most other dance scenes, which means a lot more musicality challenges.
The result is that there are some quite distinct styles among quite a small number of people. If we had been driven by a dominant teacher or teaching group, with their preferred music, we would be dancing in a much more uniform manner. That wouldn't be quite so much fun, and would make us heaps less adaptable when taking our tango traveling.
When taking an 'Interpreting Piazolla' class in Buenos Aires, those of us Wellington folks that were there found it quite easy as we'd been doing it for years (cos we only had Piazolla music here at first anyway). Others with much bigger dance scenes than us were struggling with it. So in some respects - "viva la difference"! That said, there are some basic and essential rules that help things work on any dance floor, and given our kind of hodge-podge history of dance-style development, we perhaps need to take extra note of to compensate for the chaos that could otherwise ensue. So here are a few thoughts about those basic essential principles/rules...........
Following line of dance and being part of a good floor circulation are probably the main essential ones - and folks have to pick that up as they go- possibly with a bit of friendly feedback to the guys when required - and as much guidance from the teachers as possible from square 1. While there's always going to have to be tolerance of people just learning that, we kind of have to make sure they 'get it' eventually.
But we don't want to get too preachy about it as it can be a barrier to people's enjoyment, and we need people to have fun as soon as possible in their dancing lives so they stick with it. Hey it helps us more experienced dancers keep our floor skills sharp eh!
There are also common rules of everyday appropriateness in behavior that apply on the dance floor just as much as in day to day life. Its not really rocket science. The main difference is that in taking a partner for a dance is a matter of extra trust and respect. Leaders have to respect the special trust the followers are placing in them. Tango is an intimate experience based on trust, respect and sharing, and that shouldn't be abused. Guys remember, its all about making the lady feel safe, wonderful and special. Anything that detracts from that is something to do less of - period! We can all work on that. When you can get all that balanced you get the best dances, the best tangasms, and the smiliest faces when the music stops and the room comes back into focus.
What about teaching on the dance floor? Well - its not part of the dancing experience. Basically it is very bad form to stop in the line of dance and go over moves etc. We've all done that at various times, and we can get away with it sometimes due to fairly empty dance floors. But basically it is a no-no (good one Neville). Mainly cos it can stuff up line of dance and circulation. And it can also be a bit unpleasant to be made to feel like you've got something wrong - nobody likes to feel like a klutz! Everyone is out of their comfort zone when exploring the both fundamentals or the boundaries of tango. So its obviously a delicate time and really folks, it is up to us all to be sensitive about that. Guys - we have to be gentlemen about it whenever possible. Ladies, don't be too hard on us, especially new guys (they're usually terrified - I know I was).
I acknowledge Geoff's good point about sometimes really having to share some feedback between two people (not the same as telling them they've got it wrong). It is a valuable way to grow what you do. And sometimes I know I really want to suggest something to someone when I feel it is holding back their possibilities in dancing with me. As I should, I first try to improve and change my lead to perhaps help my partner, but if that doesn't work, or if it makes her feel uncomfortable and our dancing flow is disrupted, I guess I want to try and work it out together after that dance (not during).
My suggestion is to leave that feedback/sharing/tips time til the end of the song you are in, or even the whole tanda, and then ask the other person if they would like feedback on something you've noticed that affects how you dance with them (it might not happen with everyone, but you've noticed it with you). If they are keen, I reckon its fine to move off to the side somewhere out of the way, or if that is tricky then maybe head for the 'void' in the middle of the room where all the more experimental and non-circulation stuff is (or should be). But not in the line of dance zone..... Note that in busy places such a 'void' won't exist.
Guys, note that if the lady has the follower fundamentals right, then its going to be a 'leader-fault' and we need to work on our leading fundamentals. Ladies, if your follower fundamentals could do with some tidying up, it could well be a 'following fault'. But almost always its going to be a mix or both, and adjustments of both will be needed to resolve it. That should benefit both partners and will open some new doors for your dancing together.
Hope this not-so-wee brain dump adds something useful. That's my morning break used up - back to work now.
Chao
Gordon
| Next > |
|---|
Last Updated (Tuesday, 11 November 2008 22:44)